They do exist ARES piston Kit

[Nathan_Bell]

I was working through Subguns NFA stuff, and look what I found

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/i...uery=retrieval

It looks like at least a few have shipped. Now has anyone ran one and have a report for us?

[VA_Dinger]

Wow, thats kind of like seeing Bigfoot or the Lock-Ness Monster.

[Nitrox]

The new drop in kits and the rest of the Shrikes will ship in two weeks.

[Stickman]

Originally Posted by VA_Dinger

Wow, thats kind of like seeing Bigfoot or the Lock-Ness Monster.

VA,

I'm not really sure what its a sighting of, but they need to put out a solid product, and back it up with support if they are going to ever regain the trust of the firearm community.

The below picture would NOT inspire me to make a purchase.

[Cyclic240B]

Originally Posted by Stickman

VA,
...................The below picture would NOT inspire me to make a purchase.

In this day and age Stick', me either...

[ABNAK]

Yeah, they DO exist. I have one on my 16" Bushy Superlight and it runs fine. Sure as hell makes clean-up a lot easier and quicker. For around $400 it's a worthwhile investment to me. God knows I've spent more $$$ on stupider shit!

For me it's about ease of maintenance. I won't go into the whole "heat" thing or even reliability issues (of which I've had none with mine). Practical accuracy isn't affected---hell, it's a Superlight after all! Not exactly a tack-driver to start with. I'm real anal about keeping my weapons clean. This allows me to get an "arms room" cleaning job done in about 30 minutes, as opposed to nearly 90 minutes with my DI stuff.

Hey, if any of you guys are interested I can vouch for the fact that they DO work. To be able to just "drop it in" as opposed to sending an upper off into a black hole for months on end or waiting just as long for a factory built one is comforting.

[Alpha Sierra]

Some of you who judge the product by the quality of the photograph might want to read what Dennysguns has to say about his personal experience with this retrofit in that other forum.

[K.L. Davis]

Is it me, or does the Ares kit look a LOT like the first generation of the LWRC piston kit? And didn't the last two comapnies that tried that exact design drop it after they found out it was failing under high round count?

I mean the Ares kit is obviously not intended for serious use, but hey, do something original huh

[Alpha Sierra]

Originally Posted by K.L. Davis

Is it me, or does the Ares kit look a LOT like the first generation of the LWRC piston kit?

There are only so many ways one can design a piston/tappet arrangement to drive an AR's operation. They are all bound to look similar.

Originally Posted by K.L. Davis

I mean the Ares kit is obviously not intended for serious use

I'd be interested in learning how that conclusion was reached.

[Stickman]

Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra

Some of you who judge the product by the quality of the photograph might want to read what Dennysguns has to say about his personal experience with this retrofit in that other forum.

My comment was written several months ago when the primary thing that Ares had going for it was their reputation of the Shrike. I'm aware of Dennys thread, and I've abstained from any comments about it because Denny is a good guy, and I have no wish to hurt anyones business. It still remains that the Ares has a long standing commitment that they have been unable to deliver.

Long term support, and durability of this product is still to be determined, and it isn't because of the picture.



ETA- If you have info relating to the Ares drop in unit, please post it.

[K.L. Davis]

Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra

I'd be interested in learning how that conclusion was reached.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it

The history is that none of this is new... gas piston ARs go back at least 20 years and longer than that in shop testing. Those that know me will tell you that I am in fact a fan of piston uppers for certain purposes and if properly done, but for edification, let's talk about the history of this design.

The "drop in" designs all seem to have encountered the same problem, and that is they rely on consistancy in manufacture and installation of the FSB -- which to date, is not something that can be relied on. Some problems that others have faced in the past are:

1. The proboscis like "spigot" that slips into the gas tube hole in the front sight can not be made long enough to "bottom out", as the depth of that hole varies from gun to gun, so you end up with the counter force, of the piston pushing forward, being supported by the cross pin, which was never designed to take that amount of force. Eventually, that pin can shear and the piston assembly is free to move back and forth and spin, redering the gun inoperable. Some ideas to solve this in the past included a small spring in front of the spigot to take up some of the force, a selection of drop in "spacers" and the best solution was to make it too long and have the installer file it down to fit.

2. If you get past that, you have to rely on the FSB being installed perfectly vertical to the rifle... if it is off to either side (as most are) it will place a lateral strain on the same thin "spigot" and eventually it will crack. The heat from the gas at this point can take the part to elastic state quickly. The solution was to move the larger diameter part of the drop in piece forward, so that it butted up to the FSB and helped prevent rocking... but again, this proved hopeless as the dimensions were unknown and the back of the sight base never flat. So now you have to machine down the back of the FSB to a known dimension, this is no longer a drop in kit and you might as well change out the FSB with something that allows the end user more options... this starting to look familiar?

These are two things that come to mind right off, I honestly have not given this design much thought in the last 10 or 15 years, but I do like the Cup and Spigot design that was taken from the AR18/180 and have worked with it quite a bit.

Naturally, there are different standards for "serious use" -- I did take the time to read the post on TOS and noted one person saying that accuracy is not effected, as he shot a dime size group at 25 meters? I dont call that any sort of test really... nor is 500 rounds, or 5000 rounds a test of reliability. If Ares has overcome not only these problems, but their long history of not being able to deliver product, then time will tell and I will be more than happy to post here that I was wrong... if that is the case.

But until there are hundreds of rifles outfitted with the kit and hundreds of thousand of rounds on record without incident, I will continue to consider it a hobby kit.

[Milkman]

Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra

There are only so many ways one can design a piston/tappet arrangement to drive an AR's operation. They are all bound to look similar.

I'd be interested in learning how that conclusion was reached.

The ARES kit has all kinds of problems.

(In no particular order)

1) It does not address carrier tilt
2) It does not address the weak gas tube attachment point
3) The receiver bushing is cheap and does not secure to the receiver
4) The system can not be adjusted for gas volume or velocity
5) Handguards have to be modified to fit

[Alpha Sierra]

Originally Posted by Stickman

ETA- If you have info relating to the Ares drop in unit, please post it.

Nope, no new info. Trying to learn about it without being a $400 Beta Tester.

[Alpha Sierra]

Originally Posted by K.L. Davis

The history is that none of this is new...

Thanks for the feedback. It appears that the kit includes a spring to take up the slack due to FSB gas hole depth tolerance, but I haven't seen any explanation regarding how Ares fixed the other issues you raise.

Wait and see, I suppose.

[Seth Harness]

HUH. I have no issues, I only have about 175 rounds through mine so far mind you. no the bushing does not mechanically fasten to the reciever, but I had to drive mine in... thats pretty damn tight. Handguards are now in production from what i understand. I dont know that it was supposed to be the invention to kill all other inventions, just a basic piston system that gets the job done, for a decent price. I have heard a couple accounts of 5 and 6K through their rifles without issue. Your right though, its going to take awhile to get to "hundreds of thousands of rounds".

[GunLovinTexan]

Theres only 2 gas systems i have entertained one being POF of which i own 2 and im entertained by the Colt 1020 system which hasnt been realeased but i will pick one up when they are.

The ares kit doesnt look very strong at all.

My buddy Dan has the Shrike upper and that thing is way cool.



Rob

[Seth Harness]

Originally Posted by GunLovinTexan

Theres only 2 gas systems i have entertained one being POF of which i own 2 and im entertained by the Colt 1020 system which hasnt been realeased but i will pick one up when they are.

The ares kit doesnt look very strong at all.

My buddy Dan has the Shrike upper and that thing is way cool.



Rob

When you say "dosent look very strong", what do you mean?

[Razorhunter]

God forbid I even ask,
But I wish someone had an ETA on the Colt 1020...