6.5 Grendel & 6.8 SPCII - Feedback Wanted

Charles Daly · #1 07-01-08, 14:30

We are considering adding some additional calibers to our builds, and right now the 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendel are at the top of our "possible" list.

What do you guys think about these? Are both popular enough to warrant our producing them or should we only do one? Or neither?

Your feedback, as always, will be greatly appreciated!

Sincerely,

DocGKR · #2 07-01-08, 14:48

Both are fine calibers for the hobbyist shooter or hunter.

At this point, the 6.8 mm is more thoroughly tested and proven to work in a wider array of combat/duty situations and through a wider ranger of barrel lengths.

Have you read this: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf?

6.8 mm works best with a 1/11 or 1/12 twist barrel using the "Murray"/SPCII type chamber.

Dastook · #3 07-01-08, 15:22

I'm looking for a good 6.8 upper now!!!

Furry Jello · #4 07-01-08, 15:37

You might want to take a look at this also.
They did an eval on a bunch of 6.8 upers.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=353523

plmarine · #5 07-01-08, 15:54

[quote=Charles Daly;185629]We are considering adding some additional calibers to our builds, and right now the 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendel are at the top of our "possible" list.

What do you guys think about these? Are both popular enough to warrant our producing them or should we only do one? Or neither?

Your feedback, as always, will be greatly appreciated!

Sincerely
If you make one in 6.5 Grendal : I will purchase it right away. Can I leave my deposit now

6.5 will reach out and touch someone!
Paul

gene · #6 07-01-08, 16:02

I would love to see a 6.8.

caporider · #7 07-01-08, 17:53

Make your D-M4LE carbine in 6.8SPC with the correct SPC-II chamber and 1:11 twist (4 groove) barrel in 16" and 14.5" lengths, with other SBR lengths to follow. You won't be able to keep them in stock.

Dave L. · #8 07-01-08, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by caporider

Make your D-M4LE carbine in 6.8SPC with the correct SPC-II chamber and 1:11 twist (4 groove) barrel in 16" and 14.5" lengths, with other SBR lengths to follow. You won't be able to keep them in stock.

+1, I just ordered one from Tim at Cardinal Armory. The only thing the man wont do is make his barrels from 4150, I bought one anyway.

6.8SPC is the ticket. PRI is making reliable mags for them and that was one of the biggest problems. Now that the chamber/twist/rifling issue has been solved it should be a huge money maker.
I would buy this upper from CD in a heartbeat.

Buckaroo · #9 07-01-08, 19:30

I would be interested in a 6.8 upper. It seems to me that the 6.5 is better at longer ranges than what most shooters ever need but the 6.8 excels where most of us regularly shoot.

Ned Christiansen · #10 07-01-08, 19:52

One thing about the 6.5, it has a person attached to it, one single individual who has something at stake, the one guy who made the 6.5 happen. After many conversations with Bill Alexander it's pretty clear to me the guy really, really knows his stuff. I mean, to the point where I feel underqualified to even give him a rating.

Not to say the 6.8 is without merit. Plenty of people who are up to speed and beyond are behind it. To be honest I have not done any kind of exhaustive study of one vs/ the other and if I did, what would it mean? Looks to me like each caliber has an edge, however slight, over the other in certain categories. Both calibers have done a lot to get folks to open their eyes to some "beyond 5.56" possibilities. In 12 years maybe we'll have a better system in a better caliber and if it's neither one of these, whatever it is will have both of these calibers and all the work that's gone into them as part of it's foundation..... no doubt about that.

That 6.5 ammo is quite available is big. To me, that Sabre and Les Baer are making 6.5's r, lends weight. 'Course, some of the outfits that are doing 6.8 uppers and guns are heavy hitters, too....

Was that a sufficiently non-committal opinion? OK then.... final answer, right or wrong.... 6.5.

BAC · #11 07-01-08, 20:36

I have to second Ned Christiansen's opinion and voice support for the 6.5 Grendel. Granted, my information might be outdated, but it was more marketing than technical ballistics that got the 6.8 as wide-spread and as quickly as it did to be tested more. Also, again this could be outdated, but as I remember the SPC had a very narrow range of bullet weights and calibers compared to the Grendel.

For my part, I like the 6.5 bullets, and what I see on paper for the Grendel. That said, I'll also admit interest in the new 6.5 MPC, but that's outside the parameters of the original question.

-B

gunwriter · #12 07-01-08, 21:34

might want to check out the poll on www.tacticalgunfan.com regarding buying an upper in a different caliber. Right now 6.5mm Grendel is in the lead with 6.8 SPC a close second...

When Wolf's steel case Grendel ammo hits later this year, many people will likely be looking at a 6.5mm Grendel upper.

BUT

if you CAN do both why NOT do both???? Then after a year of sales you could either drop the one that doesn't sell well or keep them both if they are both selling well?

Oscar 319 · #13 07-01-08, 21:42

Does anyone have any side-by-side data, 6.8 vs. the 6.5?

I can say that right now I would very interested in a CD chambered in 6.8.

Grendelizer · #14 07-01-08, 22:16

Of course, I'm stumping for the 6.5 Grendel. I run a Website devoted to it, so I can't claim to be unbiased.

Here is my "bumper sticker" that sums it up for me: The 6.5 Grendel can do everything the 6.8 SPC can do, but the 6.8 SPC can't do everything the 6.5 Grendel can do.

Now, marketing considerations: Already there are many suppliers into the 6.8 SPC market. Already there are many competitors fighting to divide up available profits.

The 6.5 Grendel market is relatively untapped, and has pent-up demand for a volume producer (other than Alexander Arms, Les Baer, Sabre Defence, and JP Enterprises). Wolf has assisted this by having two 6.5 Grendel loads on the shelves, and by planning the third steel-cased version.

Thus, I would argue that the first volume-producer "big name" to make a splash in the 6.5 Grendel market is going to, for a time, have it to themselves.

John

FlyingHunter · #15 07-01-08, 22:43

I have used the 6.8spc for some time and find it to be a perfect fit for a defense/hunting carbine platform. Great performance and low recoil. I now own 2 of the 6.8 guns. The ammo is readily available and in a wide variety of bullet types.

I have no experience with the 6.5.

caporider · #16 07-01-08, 22:52

Won't CD have to license the 6.5 Grendel from Alexander Arms? No such requirement with 6.8SPC. Also, Alexander Arms is the ONLY source of 6.5 bolts with the correct bolt face... You can source 6.8 bolts from CMT and LMT, with LMT also offering an enhanced 6.8 bolt. AA barrels also have a progressive chamber, so it's not like you can just have anyone ream a 6.5 chamber and have it work with AA bolts. 6.5 is a closed system -- good or bad. If you order 500 barrels, you can get pretty much anyone to do any 6.8 chamber/twist combination you want.

To shoot 6.5, you also need to match bullet weight to barrel length, both for accuracy and for MV. 16" or less, shoot 108s. 18" or more, shoot 120s or 123s. I can shoot my 6.8 115gr handloads in my 12.5" SBR and a 20" DMR. AA gas blocks and barrel extensions are commonly bedded in Loctite at the factory to prevent odd barrel harmonics from messing with accuracy.

As for the Wolf ammo -- the 123s are what you expect from Wolf - dirty, slow, not accurate. The 120 MPTs are better, but not in the same league as the AA or Black Hills factory loads.

Finally, market momentum is really behind the 6.8SPC.

ETA: I do own and shoot both 6.5 and 6.8.

wichaka · #17 07-01-08, 23:21

I recall when the 6.8 first came out. I was impressed with the performance, and had a rifle built for it (varmit) and it's one of my favorites. Then the 6.5 came out, ok let's stop bringing this stuff out eh, it's costing me more money!

My vote is bring out both pleeeeeeeeeez

rubberneck · #18 07-01-08, 23:30

Why the 6.5 v the 6.8? Both are bloody expensive. I would think that given the current ammo prices that there would be a much larger market for the 5.45.

platypusREX · #19 07-01-08, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grendelizer

Of course, I'm stumping for the 6.5 Grendel. I run a Website devoted to it, so I can't claim to be unbiased.

Here is my "bumper sticker" that sums it up for me: The 6.5 Grendel can do everything the 6.8 SPC can do, but the 6.8 SPC can't do everything the 6.5 Grendel can do.

Now, marketing considerations: Already there are many suppliers into the 6.8 SPC market. Already there are many competitors fighting to divide up available profits.

The 6.5 Grendel market is relatively untapped, and has pent-up demand for a volume producer (other than Alexander Arms, Les Baer, Sabre Defence, and JP Enterprises). Wolf has assisted this by having two 6.5 Grendel loads on the shelves, and by planning the third steel-cased version.

Thus, I would argue that the first volume-producer "big name" to make a splash in the 6.5 Grendel market is going to, for a time, have it to themselves.

John

I am with you.

Charles Daly · #20 07-02-08, 00:57

Gentlemen, thank you all for taking the time to post in this thread. The information and links you've given me are all good stuff both from a technical and a marketing point of view.

In the next few days I will have some decisions to make so if you think of anything else you would like to add, by all means please do so.

Sincerely,