Favorite Drills

[abnartyguy]

Gents,
I have to admit i made the same mistake after taking Hac's and Lav's class that when Pat Rogers introduced his Box drill I looked at him like, what? It's that a failure to stop drill? I have to say both are good drills that emphasize two different skills. Hac's will stress shooting and moving, Pat's is good for target transitions. Best part of Pat's drill is when you shoot it strong hand only with a carbine and see how heavy your AR really is! While Hac's/Lav's drill will remind you that chewing bubble gum and walking is a learned skills, lol, later.
-Zef M.

[John_Wayne777]

By "treat" Mr. Vickers means "Drill most likely to humiliate you".

Everybody looks like a stud going forward....but getting people to walk backwards while making accurate shots around a series of obstacles....that's tough. On more than one occasion I've just about ended up on my a$$ while doing a drill like that. You have to learn to process a whole lot of information at once and keep a lot of things straight to be able to do it well....

It's even worse in the dark. I think the majority of our time on the short bus in the low light class was doing the box drills and the figure 8 drills (weaving in between two obstacles in a pattern that makes a figure 8) in the dark.

Word of advice for folks who want to try this out with new(er) shooters for the first time:

The standard way of defining the four corners is to use 55g drums or their plastic equivalent. Be sure to weigh them down a bit so they won't fall over if someone bumps into them.

Better yet, to avoid someone backing into a barrel, tripping, and testing his ability to keep his finger off the trigger and muzzle downrange unexpectedly, I suggest using either word planks or at the very least police tape strung from corner to corner. This way, the shooter will have visual and tactile feedback if he starts to intersect one of those crazy malicious barrels.

[AZATHOTH]

a fun variation on this drill, have a friend/teammate yell "transition" (to pistol) makes it alittle more fun.

once you make it to the corrner switch back to your rifle (or when you run dry)

movement, precision, and practice transitions on the move.. just more fun to be had...

also if you still have anything left in your mag, that mag gets left in your gun (or put back in) on your next turn.. just more fun, count your rounds if you can.

[Blake]

I was thinking about some of the best ways to get the "best bang for your buck" at the range. I realize there are several types of qualifications types of runs you can go through. I've seen Mr. Hackathorn's IDPA classifier with the M4, seems like a great "practice" session. However it is only 90 rounds, and I'm guessing it would take just a few minutes to accomplish. I'm looking for ideas for pistol and carbine, conditions would be between 200-300 rounds, and have approximately 1 hour at the range. I would like to get a wide variety of drills. This is for nothing formal of course, just looking to put together several different range training sessions. I think it is important to go to the range with a plan, that will challenge you, and let you work on useful skills other than standing square and shooting rounds at a target. Thanks.

[mark5pt56]

My opinion is that courses are test and not training, drills designed to address specific manipulations are training.

One thing I've learned is the use of targets that give you some measurable feedback. The various Bullseye targets are good for this.

Break down the core things you need to perform.

Stance(standing, kneeling, prone + other abstract ones)
Grip
sight alignment
sight picture (sight management)
trigger control (be nice and don't spank it like a wild pony!)
breathing (dependant on system and shot difficulty)
follow through (primary threat/scan for others/team mates, etc. weapons check)

If you want to get deeper, there are sub categories for some of the above(listed).

Once you understand the above dry, start working on live fire. Untimed accuracy to begin with at various distances, two handed, strong hand only, weak hand only.(not getting into sillyness such as off hand, support hand reaction hand, etc, I see all as a term to describe the hand which isn't the dominate)

ready positions
multiple shots/targets
malfunctions
reloads
draws
positions
shoot on the move
mover if available
timed runs

Don't introduce the time into it until you have worked out the bugs on the movements. Do them right and then worry about the time, speed will come later.

That's a start I guess. When you can keep them in the target slow fire, start working on timed.

Just a start, hope it helps!

[Blake]

mark5pt56,

I understand what you are saying. I'm talking about drills shooters perform after they have the basic fundamentals of shooting or quality initial training. I'm not talking about discarding the basics though. What I was trying to get at was, as a hypothetical (which also describes myself). I'm a guy that has attended a few training classes, carbine and pistol, and I want to continue to develop and refine my skills. What are drills that "you all" perform to get a "valuable" training session. Maybe I read you response wrong, just wanting some ideas to go to the range and get a good "workout" of skills, so to speak. Thanks.

[Misc Ex-Member]

Originally Posted by Blake

However it is only 90 rounds, and I'm guessing it would take just a few minutes to accomplish. I'm looking for ideas for pistol and carbine, conditions would be between 200-300 rounds, and have approximately 1 hour at the range.

Honestly, I think 200-300 rounds in an hour range session is way too much.

400 rounds in an 8 hour range session is quite reasonable. Remember, quality over quantity.

[mark5pt56]

Blake, No worries. This is for the benefit of other readers. Also, without knowing you, I don't know your level.

The fundementals are something alot of people over look. Let's look at it this way, when you go to the gym, do you "warm up" with at least two sets of a light weight that allows you to prepare your body parts for the main session, which is in increments? This also allows you to check your form and make adjustments if necessary to insure you are doing it right so you can continue to progress with more difficult sets. If you don't, you risk injury because you aren't prepared to go further.

Same thing with shooting, the "injury" you would suffer is consciously "programing" your long term memory with bad input and performing that scar when it will cost you.

TheKatar is right, for an hour, I don't have a set number of rounds. That may be dependent on what drills you do and time for set up, review, etc. Make every round count, mainly because each time you do something, you are programming your subconscious(quality, quality qaulity) You know when you've reached the point when you are not mentally aware enough to do it right. I know you've had those classes/sessions when you get done and are mentally drained. By yourself, you are getting more repitition quicker and will reach that point sooner.


I would say if you are pressed for time, narrow your focus on the number of manipulation drill you want to work on.

A quick sample warm up

Set up a target at a distance that will make you use your sights(example-3" dot at 10 yards)
Dry fire 10-20 times
Come from a ready the same number of times and dry fire
Draw and dry fire.
Shoot 5-10 rounds slow untimed from 2 hands, SHO, WHO
(when slow fire, don't shoot a set with 10 shots, shoot 10 sets with one shot--but still follow through)
Now do the same from a ready under time.

Maybe that's all you got to today.
Next time, maybe work on draws and reloads.
Repeat warm up
Now do some one shot draws
Now add another target for multiple shots
Now add slide lock reload.

Keep adding to what you do and record times, scores from targets, etc to track progress.

Try to use your imagination and tailor your drills to your needs. I would recommend that you draw from different disciplines to address what you want to do.

Let's say you want to start IPSC, using those targets at varying distances with hard cover, no shoots etc would be more appropriate to practice on to help you know what you need to see with your sights to make the required shots.

I stress the fundemental because so many people either forget or think it's beneath them to constantly review them.



Concerning Test or courses, do them cold if you can to get a more accurate measure of your abilities under various conditions.

Mark

[Blake]

Basically I was on the seat of knowledge (the crapper), when I started thinking about 3 or 4 different range sessions (not limited to those, just something for the tool box) you could have to run through different fundamentals. I have taken a LAV class in the past, and he highly recommends shooting on the move should be incorporated in to your training sessions, but I know it is easy to get in the mode of static fire inside the "comfort zone". I would agree that could be a lot of rounds, but if you dump a 3 or 4 full mags of 5.56, you are at the 100 mark. I wasn't looking for something to ensure a high round count, but to incorporate several different skills in a session.

I was also thinking about how smart warm-ups are. I've read about mixed arguments about starting slow and moving on to tougher drills. Of course the argument against starting slow are there are no warm-ups in a gunfight. I don't know that I have the experience to have an opinion on the matter.

[mark5pt56]

That's why I suggest doing any courses or competitions cold, they are test, different people's thought of what a gun fight may involve or a percieved standard base don that or what's a norm for a cross section of skill levels.

On the review or warm up, that can be tailored to accomodate other training, maybe hit the harder stuff more but still do the base drills.

My last range session had a lot of shooting on the move with both weapons. Why? because they are the hardest for me(like most) and I need more work with them to build my skill.


My thought on courses are this-put a rat in maze and sooner or later he will find his way out. The more you do course, the more familar you are with it and the better you will do.
Maybe do different ones here and there to test your progress with training or compare your skill with others or levels listed by the course designer.
Be mindful of parameters of course because some are geared towards lets say a person with open carry with speed rigs and the time standards on some of the drills are not workable with a trooper with a full load out kit, etc.

Mark

There is no one-size-fits-all approach to training. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, different range capabilities, different amounts of time and ammo, different goals.

A few general things that work for me:

• I use the same exact warm-up drill every time I go to the range, and track my performance on that drill. This gives me a way to measure how I'm shooting cold.
• Don't burn out on one skill or type of drill. Some people will go and work on speed speed speed for two hours, but they're not really practicing much. I'll do some speed work, then marksmanship practice, then work on gun handling (reloads, malfs, etc.). If I've got the time and ammo, I'll cycle back through or start focusing on the things that I didn't do as well as I should.
• Have goals & and a plan. Don't just go to the range "to shoot" or "to practice." Know what you're going to do, how you're going to practice. You don't need a strict step by step program, but things like "work on weak hand only shooting" or "fix that problem I had with my reloads" would be appropriate to have on your list.
• Understand the difference between shooting and practicing. Fifty rounds of practice beats 500 rounds of shooting.
• You can't trust your sense of time when shooting. If you don't have a shot timer or some other objective measure, you have no idea whether you're doing something faster or slower.
• You will rise or fall to the level of those with whom you associate. Get a good shooting partner or group of guys who are better than you, who can push you to perform. Sometimes it's good to shoot by yourself, but working regularly with good (read "better") shooters will do more for you than just about anything else.

[tjcoker]

I've been doing a lot of what LAV had me and my training partner do in his class. Aubrey's AAR is a good reminder for me of the drills that we did. The 10 rounds in 10 seconds from the holster at 10 yards into a 5" bull is my favorite to put myself through a couple times a range session. I do this now from both left and right (strong) two handed shooting. It's kind of cool to put my buddies on this drill at 7 yards and then show em it can be done at 10 yards weak side...

I also enjoy working the pivoting that LAV showed us. I'll through that in a lot now so as to make my shooting a bit more difficult from a fixed point.

Scotty Reitz of ITTS taught me to not shoot from the same location twice. His stated reason was that he never met a suspect who let him have a do-over shot if he had missed. So I also tend to walk all over the range and take shots from varying angles, distances, stances, and shooting hands. It drives my regular training partner nuts.

I also invested in a timer like Todd mentioned. A shot timer is real cool to run the timed drills... but it is also neat to see how long it's taking me to come out of the holster and get off my shots too.

I also work transitions from my AR or shotgun a lot.

The box drill as LAV showed me, along with other movement drills keep me humble.

Anytime I walk back to reload from the truck I call for a "walk back drill" as LAV also showed me. That is really cool for keeping the fun factor up between myself and whomever is out training with me.

We usually practice for 2-4 hours. A box of shotgun shells or 90~ rifle rounds and 100-150 handgun rounds is the usual if we go all 4 hours. Sometimes it's slower if we bring out someone from my jail who isn't as used to shooting.

I really try to mix it up to keep from getting fat dumb and happy. I like that comment about training outside of your comfort zone.

Tim.

[30 cal slut]

Originally Posted by tjcoker

AAR is a good reminder for me of the drills that we did.

Amen. I've taken two LAV classes and have written down (just about) every drill that we ran. These drills are for practicing skills, such as shooting on the move, turns, malf and reload drills, etc. Basic stuff, all of which, I just realized, can be dry-fire practiced.

My challenge is finding a range that will allow me to live-fire practice as I desire. For example, in my neck of the woods, I have a tough time finding a range that will let me shoot .223 carbine inside of 75 yards. Turning and moving? Shooting at night? Fuhgedabouddit.

There are a few things I've taken away from LAV on practicing:

1) Train outside your comfort zone - regularly.
2) If you're practicing right, after 200-300 rounds TOPs, you're gonna be junk (and with .223 what it is, broke).

One of my favorite LAV drills is to shoot at a 200 yard target with your weak side (derived from his infamous walkback drill) from low read or switch-shoulder. At first, it was like trying to wipe yer a$$ with yer toes, but then over the course of 50 or so rounds, it began to feel natural and gradually accuracy improved. I still can't hit the side of a barn relative to other folks I've trained with, but I'm hopeful that I can improve over time.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Blake

I've seen Mr. Hackathorn's IDPA classifier with the M4, seems like a great "practice" session. However it is only 90 rounds, and I'm guessing it would take just a few minutes to accomplish.

Like you said, there are many drills and others who have taken LAV's carbine courses are familiar with dozens of excellent drills. Do not overlook Ken's modified IDPA classifier (MIDPAC) for the carbine. It is an excellent set of drills. Do not think that 90 rounds is not sufficient. If shooting it once doesn't float your boat, shoot it twice, three times, ammo is only money at 35 cents a round.
The MIDPAC has all of the element for skill building such as:

Pprecision shots (head)
Relative close range of 15 yds. (as in CQB if you want to use cool terms)Maximum range of 40 yds. (lets you set it up in most pistol bays of many gun clubs, as most gun clubs frown on using their 100 yd or longer range for one individual usage)
Shooting on the move (forward, backward, lateral)
Reloading
Transitioning to support side
Shooting around barricade
Multiple targets

I've used it for practice many times since Ken showed it to me. It takes a single shooter a little longer than an hour to run through from setting up to administering the COF, reloading, pasting targets between stages, etc. If you want to make it tougher, shoot it during low light (dusk). I've seen my scores improved, not to the super combat wombat ninja master level yet, but improving. Shoot it with 5.56mm or shoot it with .22LR if you have a conversion kit.

Don't discount it, give it a try, you'll appreciate it.

Originally Posted by 30 cal slut

2) If you're practicing right, after 200-300 rounds TOPs, you're gonna be junk (and with .223 what it is, broke).

That's far too broad a generalization. Some people fatigue (arms, eyes, and/or brain) faster than others.

More importantly, if you're practicing right you should not burn out after just a couple hundred rounds. I've put plenty of students through an 800+ rnd/day program and while folks might have sore thumbs by the end, they're still learning and improving. It's all about pace, keeping focus (your own or the students' as appropriate), and switching things up so the drills stay interesting.

Now, 200-300 rounds of practice is certainly good, and there's no point in shooting more just for the sake of launching lead downrange. But setting some kind of arbitrary round count isn't necessary or productive.

[markm]

For pistol sessions.... I personally don't subscribe to "warm-ups". I don't condemn them, but for me... I just jump right in.

There will be No warm up prior to an actual shooting, so I don't want to become dependant on that step in my training.... and translate that to expected failure in a real life shooting because I didn't get to warm up.

I will jump right in to draw and fire drills as quickly as I can get set up. Now somewhere during the session, I'll step it back and do dry firing depending on how good/bad my live fire is going.

Originally Posted by demigod

I will jump right in to draw and fire drills as quickly as I can get set up.

My warm-up drill is to draw and engage a 5x8 card at 7yd with as many hits as I can get in a given time period. By keeping track of how many hits I get when I'm "cold" I have an idea of where my actual skill and preparedness are that day, and over time.

[markm]

How do you feel about shooting different platforms or shooting rimfire during the session?

I know guys who are against shooting non Glock platforms for fear of messing up their trigger control.

And I've had instructors who've felt that shooting rimfire pistol will hurt your carry/duty weapon shooting.

ME? I shoot any and every gun I can get my hands on. I'll easily switch over to rimfire for a while. I find that it settles down my trigger control on my real pistols quite a bit.

I like to break up anything resembling a regiment when it comes to practice.

That's a loaded question, pardon the pun.

I'm not a big fan of jumping from gun to gun. We call it Simon's Inverse Multi-gun Paradox, aka The SIMP Principle.

I'm neutral on the .22 kit thing, though. My personal experience is that it encourages sloppiness in grip and other recoil management skills. At the same time, it can be incredibly beneficial for working on marksmanship, reset, and gun handling skills. With the price of ammo going through the roof, it's hard to tell people not to use a .22 kit. I just think you need to stay away from anything related to fast multiple shots. A .22 kit is essentially dry-fire with a bullet hole and slide action.

Another thing I'd recommend for someone going the .22 kit route: start and end every shooting session with your "regular" full power ammo. Put the rimfire practice in the middle. Get to the range and confirm you're doing things right. Before you leave the range, get the feel of full recoil back.