About to take the plunge - TacSol 22LR upper

[austinN4]

I have search here and elsewhere and have read everything I can find about 22LR conversions and uppers. I wanted to do a final check before I laid my money down.

If it matters, I will be using it on my N4 Light Carbine to shoot on the cheap but still have the same profile weapon. I realize the felt recoil and trajectory will be different.

I considered the S&W 5.45 upper but I just don't want to mess with the corrosive ammo.

I also considered a 22LR conversion but would rather have a proper 22 barrel.

Experienced owners are especially welcome, but I am interested in anything anyone has to say about the subject. Thanks!

[rob_s]

I'm on the fence as to .22 vs. 5.45 myself. Trying to decide which type of shooting I'll do more of and buy accordingly.

[rljatl]

Here's a range report:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17682

[austinN4]

Originally Posted by rljatl

Here's a range report: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17682

Yep, read it. Thanks! Any additional comments you would make since it is a month and a half old?

[GaryG]

Just curious: Why did you choose the TacSol over Spike's Tactical?

[austinN4]

Originally Posted by GaryG

Just curious: Why did you choose the TacSol over Spike's Tactical?

Before I answer, let me ask, why not?

[C4IGrant]

Originally Posted by GaryG

Just curious: Why did you choose the TacSol over Spike's Tactical?

Better quality would be my main reason.


C4

[austinN4]

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

Better quality would be my main reason.

Grant, since you already stated this I will answer it too, even though GaryG didn't reply yet.

Quality would be my reason also. TacSol has a great reputation in the 22 market by manufacturing and selling aftermarket products, many of them barrels, for Buck Mark and Ruger pistols and Ruger 10/22 rifles. They also offer 1911 "uppers". And a big part of the AR upper is the barrel, otherwise I would just get a conversion. This is the same reason I bought a N4.

But I am not saying anything bad about Spike's, I just know more about TacSol.

Plus I figure they gotta be good if Grant is willing to build uppers around their barrels and bolts.

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by austin12gauge

Before I answer, let me ask, why not?

I didn't have a hidden agenda when I asked. I have a Spikes Tactical upper, myself. I thought the price and quality of the two were about equal; the reason I went with Spikes was that it is full-auto capable, and TacSol specifically says on their web site that theirs was not. That was about it.

Barrel quality was mentioned, and I understand that Spikes has Walther barrels - - as an option, though. I can't believe TacSol barrel quality could beat that. Don't know though - - don't know where TacSol gets their barrels.

Grant, can you expound on your 'better quality' comment? In what area(s)?

Thanks.

Edited to add: It appears from the TacSol web site that they manufacture their own barrels.

[mikeyonthemadone]

email me for more info. But here is a good place to start....

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=374041

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by mikeyonthemadone

email me for more info. But here is a good place to start....

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=374041

Hmmm. Interesting thread. Thanks.

[UVvis]

Bottom Green gun is a TacSol Upper.

So far, the upper has about 2,000-ish rounds though it. I've gone back and forth between working on my shooting with Iron sights and putting an Eotech on it.

Anyhow, I really like this gun despite a few problems I've had with it. The folks at TacSol are top notch and really want folks to be happy with their product. I'm very impressed with their service thus far, and I'm confident they will take care of any problems.

The way it showed up upper wouldn't work. If I could get two or three shots in a row out of the gun, I was doing well. I've fired an awful lot of .22lr over the years, and know the guns are picky and can be finicky when it comes to ammo. So I figured it might just need a break in period.

After three range sessions, repeated cleanings, and about every type of ammo I could try, four different fire control groups, and no consistency in malfunctions (was getting every type imaginable), I finally gave in and got ahold of TacSol. They had me send the gun in for both extreme windage and the fact it didn't work. The received it, adjusted the set screw mounted front sight base, swapped out some bolt parts, zero'd the carry handle, test fire, and it was in the mail the same day they received it. Out of my hands less than a week... And they sent me a hat.

I'm not sure what all they did to the gun, but was working much better after that. It shoots pretty well and is enjoyable to shoot.

When I get back to the US, the upper is going back to TacSol to hopefully resolve the last two/three issues with it. Which I'm not going to bring up until they are resolved. Unfortunately I ran out of time this summer.

Based off the service from TacSol I have received, I would order their products again. In comparative round count, despite the problems, the upper and ten mags probably ran me around $700. It is really nice to be able to practice shooting on the move and some basic drills and only pay 1/10th the price of 5.56/.223.

[lindertw]

I'm considering a CMMG conversion kit when they're released so my daughter can blast away with my AR.

[GaryG]

[quote=GaryG;223735]I didn't have a hidden agenda when I asked. I have a Spikes Tactical upper, myself. I thought the price and quality of the two were about equal; the reason I went with Spikes was that it is full-auto capable, and TacSol specifically says on their web site that theirs was not. That was about it.

Barrel quality was mentioned, and I understand that Spikes has Walther barrels - - as an option, though. I can't believe TacSol barrel quality could beat that. Don't know though - - don't know where TacSol gets their barrels.

Grant, can you expound on your 'better quality' comment? In what area(s)?
Thanks.

-----------------------------------------

Grant, any reply?

[Bachelorjack]

I will never send Spike's Tactical another dollar. If I get time tomorrow I will call them again about the items they still owe me or the refund for those items I have yet to get.

The quality is not the same as the quality of the Tactical Solutions products and units. It is not close. A simple side by side comparison is all that is necessary.

My first order with Spikes Tactical was a long time ago. The first barrel I ordered was too long. Longer than the barrel I ordered. They did not measure it properly. A simple oversight? Hard to say when I had to special order that length, respecify the length numerous times, and then argue that I knew exactly what length I wanted. So what did they sent me? The length I told them I did not want. It wasn't an isolated incident either. They did the same to my shooting partner who lives in another state in the same time frame. He bitched enough that they finally sent him the right barrel.

Flash forward to my second and final order. I ordered a barrel and kit in the first week of February and was told 6 weeks. It arrived in June. When it arrived it had numerous problems in fit and finish.

While Spike's kit may be Full Auto capable I am still waiting on an Auto Trip ordered in February. So I guess it is not Full Auto capable after all.

People are currently working with Tactical Solutions to make their kit full auto. Very capable people.

In closing, I have no ties with either company. I'm still pissed about my experiences, obviously. Do what you want, but I would listen to Grant....

[thopkins22]

My Spikes Tactical .22lr upper has been utterly reliable for a .22, I get about two failures to eject(extracted fine) per 550 round bulk pack...easily cleared. I have around 2500 rounds through it and only expect it to get better. There's no visible wear on the bolt/carrier combo thingy. No complaints whatsoever.

I have the standard barrel, and while I haven't scoped the rifle(nor have I tried it with more expensive ammo) to check it properly it's more than sufficient for me to practice with irons.

Problems I had....long wait, but they were pretty up front about that when I placed the order...and worked with me on shipping dates when I was out of the country.

I've heard that some of the people there aren't the most gun savvy, but I'm guessing the dude who put mine together was

The TacSol unit looks like it's built to a slightly more badass degree...whether or not it's necessary is beyond me at this point.

[HisDivineShadow]

I am about to buy a complete ST-22 rifle from Spikes Tactical. Customer service via e-mail has been slow but I understand they are digging themselves out of a mountain of orders, so if you want answers you best call them, which for my part gets expensive fast(intl. charges). At any rate I went with Spikes Tactical at the recommendation of friends and the fact that they can customize my rifle. Since I am located outside the USA I won't be allowed to export the rifle unless the barrel lacks threads and flash hider, so I ordered it with a target crown for said purpose. Hopefully it will be ready in a few weeks and then I can try it out and see what I think.

And once I get it home I'll have the barrel threaded and a flash hider mounted anyway

There wasn't any TacSol option when I ordered my gun but I think I would still have gone Spikes since I wanted a complete rifle, but if TacSol makes their own barrels maybe they could have customized one for me. I think I'll be happy either way though.

[militarymoron]

i had problems with a spike's .22LR upper that i got a year ago - wouldn't feed and accuracy was poor (3" - 4" at 25 yds). i fixed the feeding problem myself but had to live with the accuracy.
anyways, earlier this year, i noticed a new rep, tom was active on the spike's threads, who was now in charge of the .22 dept and heading up the redesign of the bolt, R&D, testing, assembling etc. i contacted him and told him about my less-than-stellar experience with my spike's upper. he explained that the earlier ones had some issues, and that they had worked very hard to fix them, and that he was confident that the new products they had now were good to go, and that he was personally responsible for ensuring customer satisfaction.
i sent my old upper back, and received a replacement with an upgrade to a lothar walther barrel. the new redesigned bolt is electroless nickel plated and is supposed to run dry, with no lube. the upper is now laser-marked. overall quality is excellent, looking at the fit and finish.
i took it out for a quick function check last week at an indoor range and i'm extremely happy with the way it performed. i got some duds with federal bulk pack, but CCI mini mags and rem all worked. no feeding or extraction issues. in other words, it performed flawlessly. what i'm most pleased with is the accuracy. i'll have to put a magnified optic on it and shoot it off the bench for a better test when i get a chance, but it was shooting around an inch at 15 yds with my elbows resting on the small lane 'table'. so far, it looks it'll shoot better than i can if i do my part.
the early/old spike's ST-22 and the new one are apples and oranges, as far as i'm concerned. if you have to compare the tacsol to the spike's, compare it to the current/new one.
(i tried to incorporate as much gun-rag lingo as i could, just for rob_s)

[rob_s]

Originally Posted by militarymoron

(i tried to incorporate as much gun-rag lingo as i could, just for rob_s)

I'm sitting here reading your post, and I'm thinking "goddamnit, why did he BOLD all those bad words?!"

[BushmasterFanBoy]

Originally Posted by rob_s

I'm on the fence as to .22 vs. 5.45 myself. Trying to decide which type of shooting I'll do more of and buy accordingly.

Rob_S;

I was wondering what your opinion is on the practicality of using a .22LR as a training supplement to your primary 5.56 carbine?
If a .22LR is close enough, what would be wrong with then also perhaps adding in airsoft style weapons?
Just off the top of my head recoil impulse will be different obviously, and I would think there would be minor differences in weight, but I must admit I have no experience using a dedicated .22 AR, or an airsoft style weapon.
Some of the benefits to using one that I could thing of would be that you could learn how to handle your weapon better (Provided the supplements were setup in an identical fashion). You could also learn the basics of sight picture and so forth.

I must admit this is just what I can think of, I have no actual experience so I am curious as to what you think about the subject.