ARs stored cocked n' locked?

[Abraxas]

Originally Posted by toddackerman

My 1911 when not on my hip is on the kitchen counter in condition 1, and my M4 is next to my bed in condition 1 when I go to bed at night. Condition 2, and 3 offer no advantages over condition 1 if you are in control of your weapon.

Condition 2 on an AR? What the hell are you talking about there is no such thing.

[Parabellum9x19mm]

Originally Posted by Abraxas

Not true, Kimber and Smith 1911's also have a firing pin block

Para-Ord too. Kimber uses their own design but Smith & Paras are both Series 80s copies i believe

[TangoChaser]

Toddackerman,

Where do I begin? Dude, whether you know it or not, you've conducted a threat assement of your home and identified the threat as "imminent". Otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to have your firearms in condition "RED".

If you have not determined the threat to your home is "imminent", then your weapon status is not warranted. Put better security on your door, move to a safer neighborhood, put a piece of furniture in the path to your bedroom, buy a dog.

Quoting Columbine and VT is disengenuous. Neither of those two events had any relation to a home invasion. CCW would have made the difference at those shootings and even then, Condition 1 would not have made a difference except if the first person shot had a CCW and didn't have time to use it.

Bottom line is you are unsafe in the handling of your AR15. AR15's are not drop safe. You already mentioned being groggy when waking up. Whose to say you won't drop it in your groggyness. You'll be the next guy on the news of an accidental shooting of a family member.

Put your guns in any condition that gives you a warm and funny, but do not come to this site and spout your unsafe tactics as the tactical answer to a threat that doesn't exmay or may not exist.





Edited to remove any perceived personal attacks.

[toddackerman]

Originally Posted by TangoChaser

Toddackerman,

Where do I begin? Dude, whether you know it or not, you've conducted a threat assement of your home and identified the threat as imminent. Otherwise you would feel the need to have your firearms in condition "RED".

If you have not determined the threat to your home is imminent, then you are fucking paranoid. Put better security on your door, move to a safer neighborhood, put a piece of furniture in the path to your bedroom.

Quoting Columbine and VT tells me you are smoking crack. Neither of those two events had any relation to a home invasion. CCW would have made the difference at those shootings and even then, Condition 1 would not have made a difference except if the first person shot had a CCW and didn't have time to use it.

You strike me as the guy who has to tell BS stories to justify your manhood. "He guys, look at me. All my guns are cocked and locked, so I'm a bad ass, ready for armagedon".

Bottom line is you are unsafe in the handling of your AR15. AR15's are not drop safe. you already mentioned being groggy when waking up. Whose to say you won't drop it in your groggyness. You'll be the next guy on the news of an accidental shooting of a family member.

Put your guns in any condition that gives you a warm and funny, but do not come to this site and spout your unsafe tactics as the tactical answer to a threat that doesn't exist.

I'll address each of your points....

With all of your spelling and grammar mistakes I think you're the one on crack!

A threat assessment has been conducted and I know every soft spot from every point in my home, and neighborhood. Paranoia is defined in Websters as "The fear of the unreal". Open your newspaper and see how real it is! Better yet, stop carrying CCW because there is no need. Again...who's on crack?

As far as justifying my manhood...come and see for yourself!

Every weapon that isn't secured is in condition 1. There is no such thing as condition "Red" for weapon preparedness. Condition Red relates to battle readiness and the fact that an encounter has begun. Condition white, yellow, orange and then "RED". Got it???

I live in a great neighborhood about 2 miles from Columbine, and that was my point. I don't care where you live! It wasn't about home invasion, it was about the fact that home invasion can happen in any neighborhood. I was at Columbine. Were you? It's a great neighborhood so moving somewhere else would be a step back wards. Ever been here??? The same lunatics that lit up columbine could come through your front door.

"Bad Ass"???? I'll let you come up here to find out if I'm a "Bad Ass" or just blowing smoke.

I am not unsafe in my handling of my M4...not AR! And again, if you'd like to find out, come up from BFE OK and see for yourself.

I don't have any family members living with me so it's not a concern of shooting a family member. No one will get shot except the BG crossing the threshold of my home. The "Castle Law" is in effect.

My training and tactics are supported by industry experts, 29 years of training experience, and not errornet forum trolls.

[Parabellum9x19mm]

Originally Posted by toddackerman

With all of your spelling and grammar mistakes I think you're the one on crack!

Originally Posted by toddackerman

I'm just trying to help everyone stay alive hear, but to each his own.

like you, i have the Castle Doctrine in my state, and i live alone...yet i still keep my AR hammer down, on fire, mag inserted, chamber empty, dustcover closed.

if i need to use my AR, i can make it ready in an instant.

if i don't have time, I have a P226 with a tac light and crimson trace grips within arm's reach of my bed. a .40S&W hollow point in the pipe, another 15 in the extended mag.

i think i'm prepared enough.

i don't think your advice will help anyone stay alive "hear". if you want to practice it - fine, i won't try to stop you. if other people are stupid enough to follow your advice i won't stop them either. i think everyone's heard both sides of the story at this point and can make up their own minds about how to employ their carbines.

"safety first" is a tired cliche`....however you really should take it to heart. safety should come before everything else. its the most important part of gun handling. more important that readiness or speed.

Please keep the discussion to facts and opinions about the techniques and options being discussed.

Comments about one another's manhood are unnecessary, counterproductive, and very likely to result in the thread getting locked.

Thank you.

[czydj]

I've read over and over here, a pistol caliber round is not an optimal round for self defense. I've also read most pistol caliber rounds are susceptible to over-penetration and more likely to exit a structure such as the modern US home than most of the rounds used in the M4. I'm puzzled why so many folks choose to go with a pistol as a primary means of self-defense in the home when we have all of the above information readily available.

If a pistol is to be kept in the condition where it is ready to go at a moments notice, isn't it a tactical blunder to have the more effective tool one or more steps away from employment?

[Parabellum9x19mm]

Originally Posted by czydj

I'm puzzled why so many folks choose to go with a pistol as a primary means of self-defense in the home when we have all of the above information readily available.

"The weapon in your hands right now, is your primary weapon" said by more experienced men than me

do you sleep with your AR under the covers with you?

my HD AR is very near my bed, but i have to get out of bed to reach it. if i have time to get out of bed, i have time to pull the CH

My pistol i can just grab, sit up and shoot. hell, if i didn't have time i could shoot it lying down.

i'm not ignorant about ballistics. in a gun fight i wouldn't choose a pistol over a rifle. i think you're missing the point.

Originally Posted by czydj

If a pistol is to be kept in the condition where it is ready to go at a moments notice, isn't it a tactical blunder to have the more effective tool one or more steps away from employment?

one step. pull CH. it doesn't take long. the weapon is already on fire.

do you keep a round in the chamber, safety off? if you have the safety on, you have made the tactical blunder of being one or more steps away from employment.

[Iraqgunz]

1991-1992. And I sually travel there a few times a year when I am CONUS. That sucks having a turd sheriff like that. But, hey unless the weapon is illegal, fuck 'em.

Originally Posted by Rider79

Not sure how long its been since you lived here, but times have changed. We now have a Sheriff who said before the last election for Sheriff that he saw no problem with confiscation of firearms from law-abiding citizens in the event of a Katrina-type disaster or civil unrest. This is a guy who accepted a significant amount of gifts from the casino industry before he was elected Sheriff, violating Metro's rules. Amazingly enough, he also taught ethics at the academy at one point. The Sheriff prior to him was no fan of patrol rifles either, individual officers had to purchase them on their own dime and are subject to large amounts of paperwork if they even remove their AR from the trunk for a call. He also came out in opposition of so-called "assault weapons" after a Metro officer was ambushed and killed by a gang-banger with an AK.

[Iraqgunz]

Abraxas,

Actually there is a condition 2 and it could apply to most any firearm.

Condition 1: Magazine loaded, chamber loaded, slide forward and locked, breach closed, safety off
Condition 2: Magazine loaded, chamber loaded, slide forward and locked, safety on, breach closed.
Condition 3: Chamber empty, slide forward, trigger-slide lock mechanism disarmed, safety off, magazine loaded, breach closed.
Condition 4: No rounds in magazine, no rounds in chamber, slide back, breach opened.


Just remember that there are variations to this theme and the above actually doesn't jive with all weapons systems and with what is taught be different MIL branches, agencies, etc...

Originally Posted by Abraxas

Condition 2 on an AR? What the hell are you talking about there is no such thing.

[mmike87]

I have children, and securing a handgun from them is easier than a rifle. I personally have not seen a way to secure rifles, loaded from kids and still have them readily available. There may be one, but I have not seen it.

That said, I have decided that my primary "go to" gun is either the gun I am carrying (typically a P30) or the USP Tactical w/ light and flash hider in the electronic safe next to my bed.

I feel that given the likely threat in my area (I agree that I am just guessing in the respect) that this is sufficient. If circumstances were to change and we found ourselves in a Katrina like or other SHTF sitiation, and AR or two would come out of the safe, be loaded, and ready to go. Depending on the likely hood of a real threat, I may keep it cocked and locked - but most likely stored with the safely on, the bolt back and locked, and one slap away from being ready to go.

Threre are an infinite number of variable in play here. It's impossible to plan for every scenario, and it's therefore impossible to settle on one plan of preparedness as being "right." Will I have enough time to do this or that, rifle round or pistol round, over penetration - it's impossible to really know. So just do what your comfortable with, and be responsible for whatever choice you make.

[BWYoda]

Some interesting exchanges. My preference for the M4 unless it's slung is magazine in hammer forward if I'm CONUS - elsewhere - round chambered, safety on.

[nickdrak]

For myself, I stay with what my dept requires for storing our patrol rifles in-car:

"Cruiser Ready"

*Loaded mag inserted

*Empty chamber with "ChamberSafe" chamber flag inserted

*Hammer cocked

*Safety ON

[skipper49]

Loaded mag, empty chamber. Glock 19 next to my head or on my side is primary indoors. It stays in condition one.

[Iraq Ninja]

Originally Posted by TangoChaser

AR15's are not drop safe. You already mentioned being groggy when waking up. Whose to say you won't drop it in your groggyness.

Bill,
I would like to focus in on the idea that the AR15 is not drop safe. I assume you mean with a closed bolt on a loaded chamber. While I agree that it can mechanically happen, I don't see the likelihood of it happening so common that it would cause me to change my personal work SOP, based on my experience with the weapon. Since I am working overseas, I can only comment on how this relates to work.

If the M16 family of weapons are prone to drop firing, has the military recognized this problem, and if so, why haven't they fixed it? Or, why hasn't the commercial firearms industry recognized it as a major problem and designed a bolt carrier/trigger system to prevent it?

Has any research been done on drop firing, and at what height? Lastly, many of us know that the weapon can discharge when dropped with the bolt locked to the rear and (most commonly) with a mag a blanks. What is the physics behind such a weapon being dropped, vs. the bolt racked aggressively to the rear, which normally will not result in a discharge? I assume it must be different shock values...

[DocMinster]

Originally Posted by MBRMan

Full mag inserted, hammer down on an empty chamber.

MBR

+1

As well as all the rest in the safe

[eagle359]

I like the loaded mag inserted, hammer down condition. The only extra thing that I do is put on one of those red muzzle covers to keep something from using my bore as a roach motel.


John

[KevinB]

Just like a handgun, it does not do you any good unless its ready...


Cocked - Locked and Ready to Rock...

IF you have a HD/SD weapon it does you no good unless it is GTG


For those worried about it - would you keep your Handgun readied? (I hope so)

[markm]

Originally Posted by KevinB

For those worried about it - would you keep your Handgun readied? (I hope so)

Yeah. But the handgun has a holster to cover the trigger and is drop safe.

Depending on the circumstances, I may opt for an empty chamber.

[ZDL]

Has anyone said magazine in, bolt open, safety on? Just curious..