Shooting Wolf through a Noveske SS barrel???

[nickdrak]

I have a decent stock of Wolf steel cased ammo on hand, and am wondering if there is any real issues with shooting it through my Noveske Afghan SS barrel??? I know its filthy, I know its not optimally accurate, I know its cheap. Im just curious if the steel cased ammo will cause any damage to a SS barrel/chamber.

[seb5]

Is that the only AR you own? I wouldn't do it, no way. Pay for decent ammo to put through the Noveske and save the crap for later. It's like putting 87 octane in a jet or running a 69 Charger with a slant 6.

[MisterWilson]

Originally Posted by seb5

Is that the only AR you own? I wouldn't do it, no way. Pay for decent ammo to put through the Noveske and save the crap for later. It's like putting 87 octane in a jet or running a 69 Charger with a slant 6.

Bull.

Shoot the sucker. It's just a rifle, you're not going to harm anything.

[calebgriffin31]

If it were me, and I payed that price for that upper, why would I pinch a penny on low buck ammo? But that is me... Its your rifle, so do as you wish...

[MisterWilson]

Originally Posted by calebgriffin31

If it were me, and I payed that price for that upper, why would I pinch a penny on low buck ammo? But that is me... Its your rifle, so do as you wish...

I think everyone's missing the question:

Im just curious if the steel cased ammo will cause any damage to a SS barrel/chamber.

[larry0071]

The newer Wolf is not the varnished stuff that builds up and can potentially damage the barrel. Wolf is now a polymer coated design. It is no longer the old varnished way, so the answer is....it may not be match grade ammo, but shoot the hell out of it, have fun and let the "You gota spend a buck for every squeeze of the trigger or your gun will be ruined" type of guys just blow thier steam.

Its a gun. It has no emotions, it doesn't care if you took a shower, and it will throw wolf ammo down range just as eagerly as it will throw the very most perfect of hand loads. Pull the trigger. You may not want to place bets on accuracy with it...but its plenty good for plinking down on the farm! Not to mention its CHEAP ENOUGH TO AFFORD!

[MisterWilson]

I'm starting to have my doubts as to the "problems" with even the lacquered ammo. I believe that the varnish itself isn't burning off & sticking to the chamber but that it's actually the poor seal caused by the steel case that's allowing carbon to get between the case & chamber wall that's gunking things up.

In either case, Silver Bear > Wolf in my book...

[larry0071]

I personally think that the anti-Wolf thing is simply folks regurgitating what they have heard 1000 times over on this and/or various forums.

Show me a gun that failed from the newer style Wolf ammo with its new Polymer coating...and explaine how the same polymer style coating as most every other is using somehow caused said failure....and maybe I'll consider listening.

I talked to the owner of AmmoMan about this question and he nearly LOL at me. After a few back and forth general Q's and A's I ordered 3,000 rounds and have shot 1,500 of them in the last 6 weeks. No fear here. I do clean my rifles/shotguns/pistols after each day out shooting....I wont let multiple days out shooting stack up in my hard spent money.

Remember the old crap...If you place a car battery on concrete it will ruin the battery. How many of you SWEAR BY THIS just cause you pap told your dad, your dad told you, and now your in the garage preaching it to your son? Guess what.... Your pap was WRONG! But for generations you were willing to swear on a stack of bibles that this was the hard truth! Same thing. Old wives tales.

[The Archangel]

I put half a case of Wolf through my Noveske Crusader at an Advance Carbine course. I cleaned it with half a case of M193.

Works fine. The Noveske can handle the evil Russian steel case ammo.

[markm]

Originally Posted by MisterWilson

it's actually the poor seal caused by the steel case that's allowing carbon to get between the case & chamber wall that's gunking things up.

I agree. Steel cases don't perform the same way a real brass case does.

Springing for a high end barrel, and then wanting to shoot wolf through it is ridiculous. Will it do harm? I don't know! It's just an absurd combo.

[variablebinary]

If it cant shoot wolf its no good to you. My XCR chews up wolf like fruit bubblegum. If your gun cant handle that, what the hell is the point. To stare at it and pull out to impress your brother in law on holidays?

[mp43]

Originally Posted by markm

I agree. Steel cases don't perform the same way a real brass case does.

Springing for a high end barrel, and then wanting to shoot wolf through it is ridiculous. Will it do harm? I don't know! It's just an absurd combo.

All of the posts on this thread concern the steel case, but what about the "bimetal" bullets? In an ealier thread I posted my concerns about bimetal bullets, and was told not to worry about it, but then I ran across this from the FAQ of www.superiorbarrels.com ...

Q.) Will using steel bullets damage my barrel?
A.) Yes. Steel on steel is bad. The photo below shows four Russian, 55 grain, FMJ bullets, measuring 0.224", recovered at 100 yards from the dirt berm. The bullets were so tough that not one engraved, none fragmented; the bullets did not deform to the bore. Even when hit by another Russian bullet, the jacket stayed intact. Note the small amount of engraving on the bullet and the wide band missing the copper gilding. At 1500 rounds, on an untreated barrel, the rifling was notably shallow and getting progressively more shallow farther down the barrel to the extent of being smooth, with only lines left where the rifling once existed. I can only think of one reason: the copper gilding came off shortly after entering the barrel, leaving exposed steel on steel. This, in turn, caused a hammering effect, and pushed the rifling back into the barrel. Each bullet only hits the bore once; the barrel gets hit with each shot. The more rounds fired, the more the bore is hammered. Barrel loses. Spend a few cents more and use quality bullets: copper jacket, lead core. NATO steel jacketed bullets have a thick copper coating over the steel jacket: thick enough to engage the rifling without exposing the steel. I have not found any Russian or other Warsaw Pact made steel bullets that are worth shooting, outside of an AK.

Are these guys referring to current "bimetal" bullets, or to some "Eastern Bloc" or Chicom copper-washed steel bullet.

To me this issue of barrel wear is more concerning than reliable function.

Jorge

[decodeddiesel]

The answer is, it may not be as accurate as a Black Hills Mk. 262 or TAP or XM193 but if it won't safely shoot Wolf it's not a gun worth owning.

The newer Wolf is not the varnished stuff that builds up and can potentially damage the barrel.

Here we go again with the internet/gun store lacquer bull. Please do some research, the lacquer does NOT come off the case. The lacquer does NOT build up in the chamber. The lacquer does NOT build up in the gas tube. If you take a blow torch to an empty lacquer coated case it will not melt off, regardless your chamber is not getting as hot as a blow torch.

Here is the correct answer. Steel is harder than brass. When you fire a steel case and less likely to go "plastic" and expand to the chamber and create as good of a seal as brass. This allows more carbon and gas to blow back around the case and coat the chamber walls. When this coating builds up and goes un-cleaned, and given that the 5.56 is a non-tapered case, you get a stuck round. This is exasperated by going from non-expanding steel straight to brass. The brass expands into the built up carbon and bam gets stuck.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....hlight=lacquer

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....hlight=lacquer

[kal]

Yes. Steel on steel is bad.

What about steel jackets against chrome lining?

[mark5pt56]

That makes sense.

Originally Posted by decodeddiesel

The answer is, it may not be as accurate as a Black Hills Mk. 262 or TAP or XM193 but if it won't safely shoot Wolf it's not a gun worth owning.




Here we go again with the internet/gun store lacquer bull. Please do some research, the lacquer does NOT come off the case. The lacquer does NOT build up in the chamber. The lacquer does NOT build up in the gas tube. If you take a blow torch to an empty lacquer coated case it will not melt off, regardless your chamber is not getting as hot as a blow torch.

Here is the correct answer. Steel is harder than brass. When you fire a steel case and less likely to go "plastic" and expand to the chamber and create as good of a seal as brass. This allows more carbon and gas to blow back around the case and coat the chamber walls. When this coating builds up and goes un-cleaned, and given that the 5.56 is a non-tapered case, you get a stuck round. This is exasperated by going from non-expanding steel straight to brass. The brass expands into the built up carbon and bam gets stuck.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....hlight=lacquer

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....hlight=lacquer

[SHIVAN]

Wolf is underpowered. I know it's dirty as hell. I know it's not terribly accurate. I've personally had the neck on rounds crack and get stuck in the chamber of two of my guns. I don't like cracked cases on high pressure rounds in expensive guns like a registered receiver, or registered SBR.

If you want to shoot it, rock on. Will it do damage in regards to steel on steel? I doubt it.

[Mung]

I've shot about 1,800 rounds of Wolf through my chrome lined Noveske N4, but I don't think I'll do it through my SS Larue Stealth.
I don't have a good reason why other than I don't want to.

[larry0071]

I was told (You never know if its good or bad information) that the varnish type sealant was able to do what your saying, build up in the land area where the casing should expand and seal and cause a stuck casing. I was also told byu the same guy that the stuff can wedge and stick into the edge of the rifling in the barrel and if not properly cleaned could result in a deformation of the berrel as a round gets too tight and is forcing the barrel to expand dimmensionally to allow the round to pass. This may be all B.S., or it may be all potential problems.

[decodeddiesel]

Originally Posted by larry0071

I was told (You never know if its good or bad information) that the varnish type sealant was able to do what your saying, build up in the land area where the casing should expand and seal and cause a stuck casing. I was also told byu the same guy that the stuff can wedge and stick into the edge of the rifling in the barrel and if not properly cleaned could result in a deformation of the berrel as a round gets too tight and is forcing the barrel to expand dimmensionally to allow the round to pass. This may be all B.S., or it may be all potential problems.

It is BS, pure and simple. Yes there are differences in the mechanics of steel cases and brass cases, but those differences lie in how the case seals against gas flow, not in the coating. Think about it, how is this lacquer (which isn't even coming off in the first place, but still) going to "swim" upstream in an ultra high pressure environment and get into the rifling?

The lacquer on eastern block rounds is meant primarily as a corrosion inhibitor. It also acts to a lesser degree as a case lubricant (think tapered 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 cases in AKs) to aid in reliability and extraction.

[larry0071]

So there you have it. As an average american broke-ass family man with a wife, 3 kids, mortgage, 2 car payments, and a 401K that just took a dump in his lap..... I'll continue to buy what I can afford to shoot...Wolf. If I have to pay twice the money, I'll be shooting half as much....or worse. Talking the old lady out of $279 of children's food/clothes money is one thing....talking her out of $400 or $500 is a whole new issue.

You would not want to cross this woman...she would tear your head off and eat your beating heart!!!!