5.56 and 7.62 cans ...

30 cal slut · #1 01-14-09, 11:22

can't go wrong with surefire as next possible purchases?

5.56 can would go with an M4

7.62 would go on a bolt gun.

input appreciated.

thx.

C45P312 · #2 01-14-09, 13:01

My question is this ... why spend that much money on a suppressor when there are others similar in performance for a lot less money?

30 cal slut · #3 01-14-09, 13:37

i'm told that of the RIFLE cans, surefire hold their zero the best.

correct me if i'm wrong.

markm · #4 01-14-09, 13:44

Any can should hold zero. The POI shift is what you want minimized. And that's going to depend on more factors than just the can.

Iraqgunz · #5 01-14-09, 13:48

The only issue that I have with the Surefire cans (no hands on other than a few rounds fired during one of their courses) pertains to that article where they talk about blowing 1500 rds. through an M4 with no damage, etc..etc...to the suppressor. Since it would seem they probably BS'd about that whole thing I have to wonder. Then there is the pic of their proprietary flash hider that began to disintegrate after 500 and some rounds.

30 cal slut · #6 01-14-09, 15:19

so surefire = unwarranted hype?

i'm kind of cautious when it comes to new offerings (this coming from a guy who still AWC cans. lol.)

markm · #7 01-14-09, 15:25

I wouldn't say the SF is unwarranted hype. But you can get a lot more can for a lot less money like Iraqguns did.

C45P312 · #8 01-14-09, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

I wouldn't say the SF is unwarranted hype. But you can get a lot more can for a lot less money like Iraqguns did.

+1

I'm using a YHM Phantom 7.62 on a 16in LMT 5.56 and it's held up pretty good with a couple sessions of 500+ rounds. Haven't had the chance nor the time to shoot 1000rounds in a session yet.

adh · #9 01-15-09, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

I wouldn't say the SF is unwarranted hype. But you can get a lot more can for a lot less money like Iraqguns did.

I have to say that at first I was considering a SF 556 can based expressly on the same info that it supposedly has less POI shift (I say supposedly because I have seen no empirical data showing a comparison of various cans [not to say it doesn't exist]). After considering it for a long time, I actually bit the bullet on an AAC M4-1000 (just this past Tuesday as a matter of fact

). So I have no hands on experience yet at all, but my decision was based on what I believe to have found as the best value on the market. There was a tad bit more to my thought process, but I do not have the time right now to expand on it.

markm · #10 01-15-09, 10:59

I wouldn't put much stock in any POI shift data. You really have to find out for yourself what your can will do on your barrel.

I'm lucky in that my m4-1000 has almost no POI shift on my 14.5 inch M4 profiled barrel. I'm talking like 1/2 MOA up from my zero without the can.

30 cal slut · #11 01-15-09, 11:28

any more anecdotal feedback on the surefire QD flash hider? i recently purchased a rifle that had one attached to it.

Mo_Zam_Beek · #12 01-16-09, 13:06

Anecdotal - (it is not a lot of rounds but you asked)

10.5", 16" and 18" - with the SF FH on, the most rounds have been through the 10.5 with about 1,200. About half have been with the suppressor on. No damage to the FH. The 16" has only had a couple hundered rounds through it since installing the SF FH

I have absolutely no zero shift with the suppressor using any of the 3. The 18" gets shot from 100 to 800 with and without a suppressor but mainly with; and I have around 550 rounds through that.

Good luck

ETA - zero shift: The "amount" of shift doesn't mean anything. It is the "consistency" of any amount of shift that is critical. You also need to know the amount of shift associated with cold clean bore, cold fouled bore, and warm fouled and how the suppressor either negagates or exacerbates the CCB, CFB, WFB shot. Record them in your log book.

markm · #13 01-16-09, 13:10

That's a pretty good experience. 3 barrels with one can is a decent sample.

RyanB · #14 01-16-09, 14:12

I'm not going to comment on SureFire or 5.56 cans in general at the moment, more to follow when some issues are resolved.

But I do want an Ops 3rd (having never used one) because it is cheap, simple, easy to get and very quiet.

Take from that what you will, or won't.

Iraqgunz · #15 01-16-09, 14:47

My comment about the Surefire flash hider refer to the pic that was posted here after someone fired just over 500 rds. on full-auto. So obviously it probably isn't an issue if you are treating it properly. The claim in the Surefire propaganda magazine was 1500 rds. straight through. When someone called bullshit I asked why and was referred to the test that was done by some DoD type entity that showed on the average no M4 will withstand full auto mag dumps in excess of an average of 540 (or so) rounds. I never knew that simply because I would never contemplate doing something so stupid.

So bottom line is your will more than likely never have an issue. But, I tend to get annoyed when people make such "Fantasy Island" claims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo_Zam_Beek

Anecdotal - (it is not a lot of rounds but you asked)

10.5", 16" and 18" - with the SF FH on, the most rounds have been through the 10.5 with about 1,200. About half have been with the suppressor on. No damage to the FH. The 16" has only had a couple hundered rounds through it since installing the SF FH

I have absolutely no zero shift with the suppressor using any of the 3. The 18" gets shot from 100 to 800 with and without a suppressor but mainly with; and I have around 550 rounds through that.

Good luck

ETA - zero shift: The "amount" of shift doesn't mean anything. It is the "consistency" of any amount of shift that is critical. You also need to know the amount of shift associated with cold clean bore, cold fouled bore, and warm fouled and how the suppressor either negagates or exacerbates the CCB, CFB, WFB shot. Record them in your log book.

Mo_Zam_Beek · #16 01-16-09, 19:05

Iraqgunz - more than understood on FH and full auto thing. I think have seen a competitor's (pre production?) FH take a dump too. Someone correct me if I am wrong but aren't the FH (and esp) MBs supposed to be expendable and in some designs supposed to function as a primary blast baffle to reduce wear on the suppressor (again - not specifically speaking of SF).

With respect to the widely discussed claim by SF regarding 1,500 rounds - yeah.... I am rather amazed that the comment was uttered. I wonder if the source takes heat around the office for the statement.

On another note, it is interesting how much brand loyalty / cheerleading goes with all of the various companies.

I want to be clear, I am not saying, nor am I in postion to say SF is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I am just saying I have one, and thus far it has worked well for me (and I don't many rounds through it either).

Good luck

Mo_Zam_Beek · #17 01-16-09, 19:07

Ryan B - if you have one and are having a QC or CS issue - please post when you are ready. I'd like to hear about it.

TIA

RyanB · #18 01-16-09, 19:15

I will post when I have a resolution, for better or worse.

usmc51 · #19 01-25-09, 19:14

A unit I served with issued the Surefire in both 5.56 and 7.62. After using them in combat, I would NEVER own one myself. I have posted my detailed review of it on another forum dedicated to suppressor use, but will give you the nuts and bolts of it. Eye protection is necessary, as the Surefire throws so much crap back at the shooter that you could get blinded otherwise. Make friends with a competent gunsmith so you can have your muzzle crown re-cut frequently to overcome the constant, major degradation of accuracy from the crud being blown back at it. I'm not talking 1/2" to 1" accuracy degrading, but 1/2" to 3"-4" groups at 100 yards. I, personally, went with an AAC 5.56mm suppressor because it fit my needs at the time, but would recommend SWR, OPS Inc., AAC, etc.

Bachelorjack · #20 01-26-09, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmc51

A unit I served with issued the Surefire in both 5.56 and 7.62. After using them in combat, I would NEVER own one myself. I have posted my detailed review of it on another forum dedicated to suppressor use, but will give you the nuts and bolts of it. Eye protection is necessary, as the Surefire throws so much crap back at the shooter that you could get blinded otherwise. Make friends with a competent gunsmith so you can have your muzzle crown re-cut frequently to overcome the constant, major degradation of accuracy from the crud being blown back at it. I'm not talking 1/2" to 1" accuracy degrading, but 1/2" to 3"-4" groups at 100 yards. I, personally, went with an AAC 5.56mm suppressor because it fit my needs at the time, but would recommend SWR, OPS Inc., AAC, etc.

I would love a link to your review. I'm sure a lot of us would as well.

I currently do not own a surefire suppressor. I have owned one. I will own more. I would pick them over everything else I have played with and I have played with them all in person. I get discounts on suppressors. I would still buy a surefire for over $1k dealer with mount than another manuf at dealer cost.

I guess it depends on what you are looking for.

Surefire has an incredible warranty. Incredible. I've got all sorts of stories.

Surefire suppressors are light weight. This is more important to me than sound suppression on a supersonic round. If it doesn't hurt my ears then we are good. that is not to say they are loud. I'm just establishing what I think is important. Weight added to the end of a barrel can ruin a rifle's center of balance which is more important than overall weight.

Surefire suppressors have among the best mounts. While this can be a subjective thing, they are in the top 2 if not the best.

I don't know what else to say.

If you shoot suppressed a lot you need to clean the crown if it is exposed. Doesn't matter which can you use. Most suppressed guns "throw shit back" because of the increased back pressure they add to the system. More experience with suppressed auto loaders would have helped the poster above me understand this. Suppressors with larger expansion chambers (generally those that reflex back over the barrel) have less back pressure. Surefire makes two different styles for the M4. The K model has more back pressure and throws more shit back because it lacks the expansion chamber size.