Smith & Wesson Comes Thru

Irish10 · #1 01-21-09, 14:30

About a month ago I posted how I had lost the Troy BUIS on my new S&W M&P 15a. It fell off in the mud and snow and couldn't be found. I contacted S&W who aggreed to send me a new BUIS. A few days later they contacted me and said that since it was a "loss issue", it would cost me $179 (for a part I can buy on line for $140). After a bit of arguing I was referred to a supervisor who today agreed that they would send me a new sight free of charge. She stated at first that I should know that these sights should be constantly tightened as there not loctited at the factory. I pointed out that nowhere in the manual does it say that and if that is their position it should be in writing. This is what made them finally cave in. Most folks assume that a gun new from the factory is going to be good to go (after over 30 years of shooting the AR, I know better) and that they shouldn't have to worry about loctite or checking to see if the factory properly secured items that could fall off. Kudos to S&W for coming thru and saving me a lot of $$ and to everyone check your front/rear sites to make sure they are properly secured. Mine now have blue loctite on them.

sff70 · #2 01-21-09, 15:41

If it attaches to the rifle with a screw or a bolt, those fasteners need to be loctite, staked, safety wired, or otherwise secured.

Among other things, the pistol grip screw and the screw on the Troy BUIS need to be loctited.

KyAKGuy · #3 01-21-09, 15:59

So basically your telling us that because of your 30+ years of experience with
AR-15's and that you forgot to check your gun over for loose parts,
(which you admittedly said you know to do) then used the old "I didn't know"
argument to get a replacement TROY sight for your gun...

Doesn't sound like it was S&W's fault your sight fell off.

KyAKGuy

Skintop911 · #4 01-21-09, 16:08

This is an excellent example of why owners manuals are 10% useful information, 90% liability protection for the manufacturer, and are written for the lowest common denominator.

Exceptional customer service is a desirable thing, and I like to receive it from manufacturers. They should not, however, take it in the rear as S&W did here because one guy doesn't know to check his screws.

Unfortunately, the reality is that the BUIS didn't cost S&W anywhere near retail price, so sending it out gratis was cheaper than risking the owner badmouthing the product and costing them much more than the BUIS did.

Misc Ex-Member · #5 01-21-09, 16:10

Honestly I think S&W went WAY above and beyond the call of duty on this one.

LOKNLOD · #6 01-21-09, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Katar

Honestly I think S&W went WAY above and beyond the call of duty on this one.

Totally.

I would have never had the gumption to ask for a replacement for a sight I lost...

5pins · #7 01-21-09, 16:15

My M&P grip screw came off and my whole rifle fell into the ocean and was swallow by a sperm wale that swam off to the Indian ocean. The wale was then caught by some Japanese fishermen who were later captured by some Somali pirates that ate the wale while waiting for the ransom and found the rifle.

I wonder if S&W will replace it for me.

Iraqgunz · #8 01-21-09, 16:31

Good thing I am not in customer service. I would have laughed at you and then said "pound sand". With all of those years of using an AR you honestly didn't know that a BUIS should be Loc-Tited and checked?

BTW- most of us know about checking our sights and putting Loc-tite on them.

This sort of reminds me of the flack I got for not telling one of our guys that he installed his EOTech on backwards. My response was if he didn't know better even after I asked him if he knew how to use it, then it's on him.

JackOSU · #9 01-21-09, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

This sort of reminds me of the flack I got for not telling one of our guys that he installed his EOTech on backwards. My response was if he didn't know better even after I asked him if he knew how to use it, then it's on him.

Now that would have been a priceless moment to have a picture of...

rugburn · #10 01-21-09, 20:12

My Eotech came with instructions specifically stating not to use Loctite. Any idea why this would be?

g5m · #11 01-21-09, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5pins

My M&P grip screw came off and my whole rifle fell into the ocean and was swallow by a sperm wale that swam off to the Indian ocean. The wale was then caught by some Japanese fishermen who were later captured by some Somali pirates that ate the wale while waiting for the ransom and found the rifle.

I wonder if S&W will replace it for me.

Amazing!

RAM Engineer · #12 01-21-09, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by sff70

If it attaches to the rifle with a screw or a bolt, those fasteners need to be loctite, staked, safety wired, or otherwise secured.

Among other things, the pistol grip screw and the screw on the Troy BUIS need to be loctited.

IMHO, not enough things come predrilled for safety wire. If it were up to me, my rifles would look like it had been molested by a f***ing orthodontist...

JSantoro · #13 01-21-09, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

Good thing I am not in customer service. I would have laughed at you and then said "pound sand".

Naw, c'mon, we should be congratulating this guy! It's not every day one gets somebody else pay for the fact that one hasn't developed a basic sense of gear accountability in over 30 years.

#14 01-22-09, 00:58

Proof that not all experience is experience.

Congrats on scamming an expensive piece of hardware out of a company that is willing to take a financial loss to overcome a customer's lack of responsibility. P.T. Barnum would be proud of you.

sff70 · #15 01-22-09, 02:10

Probably because it does make it slightly more difficult to remove the nut from the rail so you can get the optic off the receiver.

I locite EOtech bolts. Period. I see no downside to doing so.

To remove an EOtech bolt, I loosen the bolt a few turns, then push it from left to right. This gets the nut off the rail. Then I remove the bolt and the optic comes off the receiver.

If you DON"T use loctite, you can bet that bolt will come loose at some point.

Good luck finding it, because you won't.

I loctite the Eotech bolts for my guys and the only ones that have come loose have been the ones that I didn't get to.

I have read in AARs of other EOtech bolts coming loose during classes.

It's a good idea to order some spare bolts and nuts from Eotech to have on hand in case of loss or breakage.

SwatDawg15 · #16 01-22-09, 05:08

You wonder why the price was $179 ? Its because of incidents like this where they get scammed.

Just say'n

Gentoo · #17 01-23-09, 01:22

Pretty cheezy to con S&W if you knew the site was likely to fall off.

Now if you were a AR noob who had no clue, then not so much.

Frankly they should just locktite everything from the factory. People who want it gone already know how to get it off anyways.

FromMyColdDeadHand · #18 01-23-09, 07:11

Why wouldn't they loctite it at the factory?

Do we need to add this to the table????

#19 01-23-09, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand

Why wouldn't they loctite it at the factory?

Because the masses expect things with a knob to come off easily. If they locktited it at the factory, they'd be overwhelmed by calls from people claiming their BUIS was stuck, broken, etc.

Iraqgunz · #20 01-23-09, 09:54

Surely those calls would be from inexperienced people and not long time users.

I mean after all it would be common sense, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddG

Because the masses expect things with a knob to come off easily. If they locktited it at the factory, they'd be overwhelmed by calls from people claiming their BUIS was stuck, broken, etc.