Non Hollow Point Carry Load

PA PATRIOT · #1 01-30-09, 20:48

To carry in New Jersey under the federal law my department has directed that Philadelphia PD Officers must carry Non Hollow Point Ammunition to comply with New Jersey State Law of no H/P use except by on-duty NJ Law Enforcement personal. What would be the general opinion on what would be suitable as a non H/P carry load for my week end trips to the shore. I own sub-compact models in every caliber to .45acp.

96GTS · #2 01-30-09, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phila PD

To carry in New Jersey under the federal law my department has directed that Philadelphia PD Officers must carry Non Hollow Point Ammunition to comply with New Jersey State Law of no H/P use except by on-duty NJ Law Enforcement personal. What would be the general opinion on what would be suitable as a non H/P carry load for my week end trips to the shore. I own sub-compact models in every caliber to .45acp.

That law is a fuckin joke! (Although I'm surprised CA hasn't enacted it (yet)...) I'm a white dude with a shaved head and dont like to wear hats, so I look EXACTLY the same out of uniform. The A/H that might recognize me off duty isn't gonna be nicer to me b/c I'm out of uniform! Female deps can let the hair down and throw some make-up on and look completely different.

That said, some might go with the whole "tried by 12 than carried by 6". I agree, but if you want to stay within policy, I would check out the Federal Expanding FMJ rounds;

Or maybe those Corbon Pow'R Ball rounds;

Or move....

DocGKR · #3 01-30-09, 21:50

EFMJ would be my first choice if a good JHP is not authorized due to insanely illogical and ignorant regulations...

#4 01-31-09, 10:20

While I'm certainly not suggesting anyone volunteer to be the test case, it will be interesting to see how this plays out the first time the NJ AG gets his wish and a cop is locked up for carrying JHPs under HR218. I think it's going to be very hard to convince a federal judge that HR218's effect covers the gun but not the ammo inside it.

Taking the NJ argument to its logical conclusion, they could ban possession of ammunition altogether, which would clearly disrupt the purpose of HR218.

Again, I am not recommending anyone volunteer to test this legal theory by getting tossed in jail.

MisterWilson · #5 01-31-09, 10:28

Whoops, nevermind.

Reading is fundamental...

sjc3081 · #6 01-31-09, 10:42

I always carry JHP in NJ under HR 218. The effectiveness of my round, is more important than the risk.

96GTS · #7 01-31-09, 12:11

Is Philly PD also one of those depts that doesn't allow officers to carry a BUG on duty?

PA PATRIOT · #8 01-31-09, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96GTS

Is Philly PD also one of those depts that doesn't allow officers to carry a BUG on duty?

You are correct Sir!

tpd223 · #9 02-02-09, 03:28

Stunning, just stunning.................

Marcus L. · #10 02-02-09, 09:36

Man, I feel your pain. As Doc said, the best load would be EFMJ which is better than FMJ, but usually not as good as a true JHP. Federal makes a nice one and from the testing I've seen the 9mm seems to run the best with this bullet design in terms of good penetration and expansion.

PA PATRIOT · #11 02-02-09, 22:20

I think there is a civilian version and a L/E version of the Federal EFMJ in 9mm, dose anyone have any test results from a short barreled 9mm like the Glock Model-26?

96GTS · #12 02-02-09, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phila PD

You are correct Sir!

That really is a shame. I pray that the admin pricks never have to amend those policies at the cost of one of your brother officers.
________________________________

Stay safe Bro...

Marcus L. · #13 02-02-09, 22:59

Stay away from the civilian version which is 105gr. It has a penetration average of about 10" in bare gel. The momentum and sectional density is so low that it behaves more like a .380 JHP than a 9mm JHP.

Go with the Federal 124gr+P EFMJ #P9CSP1

Here's an old article about it:
http://www.ammoman.com/40_EP_DESC.htm

Unfortunately I can't seem to find any from my usual online sources.

You might also try Hornady's new 115gr FTX Critical Defense load. I think it qualifies as being a none JHP. Hornady has always made very good performing defense loads and the FTX load should be trustworthy. However, it is also quite hard to find right now with the Obama purchasing frenzy.

If you can't find any of those loads, you'll have to go with a reliable FMJ load with a semi waddcutter. Most 147gr loads have a semi waddcutter and good brands to go with are American Eagle #AE9FP, or Speer Lawman #53620. Semi waddcutters improve on the cutting/crushing of permanent cavity instead of just pushing tissue aside like round nosed 9mm FMJs do. A good way to see this effect in other things is to get a pine 2x4 and hammer a nail into it about 1-2" from the edge. The board will split. Slightly flatten the point of a nail with the hammer and do the same thing. The nail will crush and cut more of the wood as it penetrates and the 2x4 will not split. Old carpenter's trick.

Marcus L. · #14 02-02-09, 23:23

Found a source for the Federal 124gr+P EFMJ:

http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail....Number=FC-EFMJ

Not sure if it is in stock or not. They should have it. I can't remember if they sell to civilians or not, but you shouldn't have any problem if you fax them your LE department's letterhead and an order request.