crossfit

[ZDL]

Subscribers bitch about the WOD here.

www.crossfit.com


rest day............................ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[WillBrink]

Well hell, if I had known there was gonna be a fitness/health section I would have put into such as this info on injury rates in SF I just posted:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26534

In this forum. If the mods want to move any of health/fitness related I have already put up, please do so. Anyway, here's my addition to this section:

The Mistake of Linear Program Design

I find most people will design a program for themselves and follow it in a linear fashion, that is they run X times per week for Y distance, lift X times per week doing Y number of sets, etc. with little change over time. A result oriented program looks like a wave form where volume and intensity peaks, say over a 6-8 week period (as an example, but programs vary widely), with volume and or loading reduced 40-60% for a week or two, then either repeated, or onto some other program. Some programs will call for taking a week off totally between programs.

Increasing intensity and or volume improves the response up to a point, then falls off sharply as you hit over training syndromes (OTS) and or injuries or both. So, periods of planned increases in volume and or intensity to reach a personal mile stone, followed by a detraining period, is best to optimizing training, reaching new personal bests, and avoiding OTS. The study listed below gives some insight into that also.

A linear program where you do the same thing each week, such as run X miles and lift X weights will be limiting. Athletes left to their own, will generally follow a “more is better” linear approach, where as a good coach will follow the “smart is better” approach, which follows a wave form pattern. Within that wave form pattern may be micro cycles and other stuff too, but that depends on the program.

There have been some interesting studies where they have taken runners and swimmers, cut their volume in half, and their times improved! Why? Because they were over training.

I find that is often the case with strength athletes also.

Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise:

Volume 39(8)August 2007pp 1358-1365

Effects of Tapering on Performance: A Meta-Analysis

ABSTRACT

Purpose: The purpose of this investigation was to assess the effects of alterations in taper components on performance in competitive athletes, through a meta-analysis.

Methods: Six databases were searched using relevant terms and strategies. Criteria for study inclusion were that participants must be competitive athletes, a tapering intervention must be employed providing details about the procedures used to decrease the training load, use of actual competition or field-based criterion performance, and inclusion of all necessary data to calculate effect sizes. Datasets reported in more than one published study were only included once in the present analyses. Twenty-seven of 182 potential studies met these criteria and were included in the analysis. The dependent variable was performance, and the independent variables were the decrease in training intensity, volume, and frequency, as well as the pattern of the taper and its duration. Pre-post taper standardized mean differences in performance were calculated and weighted according to the within-group heterogeneity to develop an overall effect.

Results: The optimal strategy to optimize performance is a tapering intervention of 2-wk duration (overall effect = 0.59 ± 0.33, P < 0.001), where the training volume is exponentially decreased by 41-60% (overall effect = 0.72 ± 0.36, P < 0.001), without any modification of either training intensity (overall effect = 0.33 ± 0.14, P < 0.001) or frequency (overall effect = 0.35 ± 0.17, P < 0.001).

Conclusion: A 2-wk taper during which training volume is exponentially reduced by 41-60% seems to be the most efficient strategy to maximize performance gains. This meta-analysis provides a framework that can be useful for athletes, coaches, and sport scientists to optimize their tapering strategy.

The Bottom Line:

People should understand that designing effective, efficient, programs is not nearly as simple as it might appear. Unless you have long term experience with concepts such loading, volume, TUT, etc, etc, pick a program by a trusted coach and follow it. The haphazard routines I see people self invent are often responsible for a lack of steady progress in the gym.

[WillBrink]

Mods, please remove. posted in the wrong thread.

[ZDL]

Do you know anything about crossfit? It is the farthest thing from a linear program there is. It prides itself on, rather loudly, being dynamic. The site is enormous and information is bountiful. It's also free. Take a few days and sift through it. You'll find it's definitive in it's research. Good luck.

[WillBrink]

Originally Posted by ZDL

Do you know anything about crossfit?

Yes, I do. However, I wrote above "Mods, please remove. posted in the wrong thread."

[ZDL]

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Yes, I do. However, I wrote above "Mods, please remove. posted in the wrong thread."

Didn't see that at the time. No worries. I was just curious as the words linear and crossfit can't exist in the same zip code due to their nature.

BTW you can delete your own posts.... I think.

[WillBrink]

Originally Posted by ZDL

Didn't see that at the time. No worries. I was just curious as the words linear and crossfit can't exist in the same zip code due to their nature.

Personally, I think, like any program, it has its pros and its cons. A lengthy review by Chris Shugart here:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...about_crossfit

A shorter critique by Coach Poliquin here:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...trength_vol_47

Originally Posted by ZDL

BTW you can delete your own posts.... I think.

I couldn't find the option myself.

[ZDL]

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Personally, I think, like any program, it has its pros and its cons. A lengthy review by Chris Shugart here:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...about_crossfit

A shorter critique by Coach Poliquin here:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...trength_vol_47





I couldn't find the option myself.

I've read those before and the logic is flawed due to a lack of education about crossfit on the part of the author. It's normal. I've gotten over the fact people don't understand it. At first I couldn't fathom how it didn't make sense to individuals9 but I understand now that just part of the game. I've been in this game a while and I never use my personal results as an advertising pitch. I point to the many people I have turned onto crossfit and their results. From my mother to the swat guy, to the 19 year old baseball player to my 70 year old grandma. All of them, and more, have excelled in this program due to its scalability and dynamic nature. Now, without nutrition, the plateau, or wall, will invariably be smacked head on. That's another discussion and another thread. I have had people quit crossfit because they felt it was too demanding (they didn't understand scalability) only to continue their failing injury prone streak at their local globo gym.

The needs of our terrorist hunters are the exact same as the soccer mom. Simply at different levels. They both need to get up, get down, push, pull, jump, etc. Crossfit hits all of those areas at their respective levels. Trust me, my grandma isn't doing the full Murph......... yet.

Crossfit is broad and general. Nature punishes the specialist. So, inside the specialty of the specialist (specific), yes they should perform better than the crossfitter. No one has argued that ever. However, outside the specialty of the specialist,(general) the crossfiter by design will come out on top.

A shorter way of explaining, We do the thing you specialize at, almost as good and everything else a whole lot better. That's the idea anyway.

The pyramid of fitness is as follows from most important to least important:

Nutrition-metabolic conditioning-gymnastics-weightlifting and throwing-sport

The specialist v. crossfitter debate gets settled with the above.

Crossfit hits the following 10 general physical skills- Cardiovascular/respiratory endurance-stamina-strength-flexibility-power-speed-coordination-agility-balance-accuracy.

I've yet, in many years, heard a legitimate gripe/concern/negative to crossfit that stands. I'm not saying it's not out there... Just haven't heard it yet. Education, research, and the fact that the results of crossfit are measurable, observable, and repeatable across broad time and modal domains, makes it tough to develop one.

The best part about all of this: It sounds as if I'm giving a sales pitch but its all free.

[WillBrink]

Originally Posted by ZDL

The best part about all of this: It sounds as if I'm giving a sales pitch but its all free.

Nah, I think you made fair comments, some of which I agree with and some I don't, but you didn't foam at the mouth as some seem to if there is even a hint of criticism about the system. I think Poliquin, being perhaps the most successful coaches on the planet, who I know well, makes some legit points. You will also note Sugart finishes his article with:

"Is CrossFit the only training system you'll ever need, as its founder and its most enthusiastic members claim? No. And most CrossFitters I've communicated with will acknowledge that. Is CrossFit a fun, challenging, effective training method? Yes ... but only if the benefits it offers are the ones you seek. As long as its goals match your goals, I recommend it."

So, he too is clearly not anti crossfit per se. Anyway, I didn't intend to start a crossfit debate and ended up here due to my thread posting mistake.

Carry on!

[ZDL]

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Nah, I think you made fair comments, some of which I agree with and some I don't, but you didn't foam at the mouth as some seem to if there is even a hint of criticism about the system. I think Poliquin, being perhaps the most successful coaches on the planet, who I know well, makes some legit points. You will also note Sugart finishes his article with:

"Is CrossFit the only training system you'll ever need, as its founder and its most enthusiastic members claim? No. And most CrossFitters I've communicated with will acknowledge that. Is CrossFit a fun, challenging, effective training method? Yes ... but only if the benefits it offers are the ones you seek. As long as its goals match your goals, I recommend it."

So, he too is clearly not anti crossfit per se. Anyway, I didn't intend to start a crossfit debate and ended up here due to my thread posting mistake.

Carry on!

Crossfiters will never (should never) point to it as the end all of everything. (we maybe an arrogant bunch but I like to believe a sampling size will show we are educated and willing to learn more) It's the bridge, or foundation if you will, to the specialty you desire.. If you desire or need one. Being LE a broad and general form of fitness is exactly what I need. Climbing over fences, up ropes, jumping over a car, crawling under a car, fighting for 2 minutes, etc. All of these things demand differently on my body. The neuro-endocrine response crossfit illicits is the same as in these real life scenarios. Training how I live sorta thing. It's scary how well the training simulates the physical and emotional stress of my real world demands.

I definitely wouldn't tell the PGA pro to stop doing golf specific exercises all together or the cyclist to stop riding.

In the case of the 19 y/o baseball player, he had some skills in areas but was unable to grow beyond a certain point. A familiar state for anyone who has set foot in a gym. When I tuned him on to crossfit he said it broke down everything and planted him solidly in a broad idea of fitness. Once he had this foundation he went back to his specialty (sport) skills and found they were even MORE effective now that he had a fitness base. He was amazed the coloration between climbing a rope and throwing a baseball or C&J and exploding off the mound. etc.

I bounce everything off the "is it measurable, observable and repeatable over broad time and modal domains" filter. If it works, it's in my life.

[WillBrink]

Originally Posted by ZDL

Climbing over fences, up ropes, jumping over a car, crawling under a car, fighting for 2 minutes, etc. All of these things demand differently on my body. The neuro-endocrine response crossfit illicits is the same as in these real life scenarios. Training how I live sorta thing.

Agreed. See my article Practical Applied Stress Training For Tactical Law Enforcement here for similar thought process:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...d=137&acatid=3

There are also vids and other info of interest at URL in sig line if interested.

[Bpurcg19]

Im finally back on the crossfit train after a long 12 week layoff from a broken vertebrate (from crossfit.. and my stupidity).

Now I am working back into and loving it all over again like I did when I first started. Once again, my times suck and my strength is not where it used to be but its all a process and soon I will be back to where I was and move up from there.

I love how challenging crossfit is and I enjoy the competition. I am having to do some isolation exercises to get my atrophied muscles back in shape but the crossfit progression is coming along better because of those globo gym exercises.

Crossfit is for me, the best program and the most rewarding.

-B

[Steve_Morrison]

Originally Posted by ZDL

The needs of our terrorist hunters are the exact same as the soccer mom. Simply at different levels.

Um, no.

PS
Crossfit is a great program.

[ZDL]

Originally Posted by Steve_Morrison

Um, no.

PS
Crossfit is a great program.

Really? Both don't need to get up, get down, pick up, push, pull, jump, etc? What does one do that the other doesn't? Fly?

[Outlander Systems]

Crossfit is the shit.

The diet is what's a PITA. I'd be a super stud if I'd lay off the trash grub.

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

I'm a big crossfit fan and believer. I've been doing it for the last 6 months and I couldn't be happier. I even did my first Muscle Up a couple of months ago. I've found that because its such high intensity and some of the weights (as RX'd) is pretty challenging, its easy to over do it a bit and strain something...but that can be true of many things.

I love that I can get a great workout in 20-30 min, the WODs change constantly, and in my opinion it is a really functional workout system. Additionally, I don't really like running, but doing crossfit has maintained my ability to run pretty well. If you have a weakness crossfit will find it, exploit it, and make you pay for it =) BTW, the exercises I hate the most are thrusters and burpees, but thats me lol!

I've done the run really far and do lots of pushups thing for a long time and I find crossfit very refreshing. Plus, its alot more fun to do with a buddy! I love the challenge and difficulty. Every workout affords the possibility of hitting a new personal best. I love Cindy, Fight gone bad, Helen and the filthy fifty!

I'm not sold on the neutral long term effects of your joints, but thats something I'll figure out in time, and is only of the only downsides I see to this program.

I'm certainly not suggesting that if you are a specialized athlete, drop all your training and work crossfit exclusively...but crossfit is a terrific base as others have noted, and there's nothing to say that you can't add more specialized training as required.

For those who don't believe you can get a great workout in 20 min try Cindy:
Max rounds in 20 min
5 pullups
10 pushups
15 squats

My PR so far is 21 rounds at 5'000 ft...YMMV

Enjoy!

GU

[iroc_dis]

Originally Posted by ROCKET20_GINSU

I love Cindy, Fight gone bad, Helen and the filthy fifty!

I'll have to try those. My favorite so far has been the Murph hero workout. All one timed event. Start with a mile run then do any combination of 100 pullups, 200 pushups, and 300 body squats, then finish with another mile run. Every second of that sucks.

I've found that its hard for me to keep up with WODs since I don't have access to rings anywhere.

[Yojimbo]

I love doing Crossfit style workouts but I would classify my training more as a hybrid style.

I use a a lot of Ross Enamait's workouts along with Crossfit WOD's, weight training, trail running, C2 rowing, elliptical and recently started including DDP's Yoga for Regular Guys.

A lot of variety keeps the training interesting!

[texasfrog]

Crossfit is a great way to work out, and I still do the WOD's a couple times a week, but I have personally seen many guys (including myself) injured from the workouts.
This is due to multiple reasons; alpha male never lose attitudes, losing form because of severe muscle failure, and competing for max repetitions and/or time based evolutions.
Once you start losing form in crossfit, you lose the infrastructure in which your body holds the weight, once you loose the infrastructure you get hurt because muscle/skeletal groups are compensating for other anatomy that has reached failure.
This is the nature of the beast, the dynamics of of Crossfit, completing a hard core workout within an average of 20-30 minutes.
So for those of you that are just starting your Crossfit adventure, remember that yes it is a very competitive way to work out with others, but do not loose your form because YOU WILL get hurt (it's not a question of if, it's when and how bad). Don't sacrifice form for that one extra pullup, box jump, muscle up, ect. It's just bad judgement. Keep your form and don't forget to stretch before and after!!!
Hope this helps...

[ZDL]

J.T. was great. Didn't time (forgot) but felt like I flew it through better than the last time I hit it.

Oh and ring dips suck.