GOVERNOR SAYS TEXAS CAN LEAVE THE UNION IF IT WANTS

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Getting ever closer. There will be a new Crispus Attucks born at some point...

Perry fires up anti-tax crowd
By KELLEY SHANNON

Associated Press Writer


AUSTIN, Texas — Texas Gov. Rick Perry fired up an anti-tax "tea party" Wednesday with his stance against the federal government and for states' rights as some in his U.S. flag-waving audience shouted, "Secede!"

An animated Perry told the crowd at Austin City Hall — one of three tea parties he was attending across the state — that officials in Washington have abandoned the country's founding principles of limited government. He said the federal government is strangling Americans with taxation, spending and debt.

Perry repeated his running theme that Texas' economy is in relatively good shape compared with other states and with the "federal budget mess." Many in the crowd held signs deriding President Barack Obama and the $786 billion federal economic stimulus package.

Later, answering news reporters' questions, Perry suggested Texans might at some point get so fed up they would want to secede from the union, though he said he sees no reason why Texas should do that.

"There's a lot of different scenarios," Perry said. "We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we're a pretty independent lot to boot."

Perry is running for re-election against U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, a fellow Republican. His anti-Washington remarks have become more strident the past few weeks as that 2010 race gets going and since Perry rejected $550 million in federal economic stimulus money slated to help Texas' unemployment trust fund.

Perry said the stimulus money would come with strings attached that would leave Texas paying the bill once the federal money ran out.

He said he believes he could be at the center of a national movement that is coordinated and focused in its opposition to the actions of the federal government.

"It's a very organic thing," he said. "It is a very powerful moment, I think, in American history."

South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, also Republicans, have been outspoken against the federal economic stimulus spending and were supportive of tea parties in their states.

The protests, organized throughout the country by conservative groups and talk show hosts, were held on the federal income tax deadline day to imitate the original Boston Tea Party of American revolutionary times.

Conservative syndicated talk show host Glenn Beck broadcast live in San Antonio from outside the Alamo, a legendary symbol of Texas independence, with crowds packing the small plaza. Many waved signs or carried little yellow flags that read, "Don't tread on me." A local barbecue chain gave away free cups of iced tea.

Mike Smart, a 51-year-old oil field worker from West Texas, held up a white handwritten sign that said, "I'll keep my freedom, my $ and my guns. You keep the change."

"I just want the government to stay out of my way. I won't get in their way if they don't get in mine," said Smart, who described himself as conservative but not a Republican.

Government spending, going back multiple administrations, has reached a boiling point with the latest rounds of stimulus spending, he said. While the Bush administration spent heavily before he left office, the Obama administration has fast-tracked big spending, he said.

"Ol' George was going to the same destination. He just didn't want to tell anyone," said Smart.

Another protester, 38-year-old Melva Fried, said the forced ouster of General Motors Corp. CEO Rick Wagoner was the last straw for her — a symbol the federal government was moving toward socialism.

"When a president can fire the head of a company, that's too much," she said, holding a sign that read "Stop Rewarding Failure."

The sales associate, who considers herself a disaffected Republican, said she doesn't believe the government should bail anyone out, including banks and individual homeowners.

The crowd at the Austin tea party appeared decidedly anti-Democrat. Many of the speakers were Republicans and Libertarians.

One placard said, "Stop Obama's Socialism." Another read, "Some Pirates Are in America," and it showed photographs of Obama, U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wearing pirate hats.

Rebecca Knowlton, 45, of Smithville, said she took the day off of home-schooling her three children and brought them to the rally to teach them about civic duty. She felt camaraderie at the demonstration.

"The movement is growing stronger," she said. "You're not alone."

___

Associated Press Writer Michelle Roberts contributed to this report from San Antonio.

[TomD]

My Texas pride is swelling!! Just wish I could have been there to participate.
Do believe there are MANY people who are seriously upset with the direction our country is heading. And I must add that ist's not just the Dems as the previous Republican administrations were also completely out of control.

Thanks for posting this as I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

[NoBody]

Deleted.

[The_War_Wagon]

As a displaced TARHEEL personage myself (behind enemy lines currently ), I once spent a year in Galveston. May have to go BACK if we start talking independence again!

[Gutshot John]

Article XIII. Every State shall abide by the determination of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.

From our first Constitution, precedent dictates that the Union is "perpetual", read indivisible. Once established the Union cannot be dissolved by secession. It would require a Constitutional Amendment, repealing the Union, for the Union to be dissolved.

[Mjolnir]

Perhaps, Gutshot. But it is rumored - I have not found it in writing or don't have it in front of me - that Texas reserved the right to secede upon joining and has the authority (for lack of better terminology) to separate into five separate "statelets" or republics. I'll look for the documents I once had.

I think that we have been denied access to a lot of information. This information can put to rest much of the rumors, innuendoes and errant claims by all sides.

One thing I find odd is that these nation states would have accepted tyranny in the guise of a constitution that essentially robs them of all independence. This is not what was intended and despite the errors of the South (siding with the Crowned Heads of EUrope) they were correct in their right to secede (though it would have been horrid had they been successful).

I'm just saying. I recognize what you stated but there IS more to it than that. Much more.

P.S.

I STILL would not wish to see secession of individual states as it would severely weaken these united States of America. Just my two cents.

[adh]

Originally Posted by NoBody

Hey, wasn't the previous President from Texas?

The only good politician is a blank politician.

You fill in the blank

Personally, the only politician I ever thought was really woth voting for (i.e. me not just voting for the lesser of evils) was Alan Keyes.

I am glad to live in and be a resident of the state of Texas and consider myself a Texan after living the elder half of my life here. I grew up in AZ, but I'm loyal to Texas now.

[adh]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Perhaps, Gutshot. But it is rumored - I have not found it in writing or don't have it in front of me - that Texas reserved the right to secede upon joining and has the authority (for lack of better terminology) to separate into five separate "statelets" or republics. I'll look for the documents I once had.

I think that we have been denied access to a lot of information. This information can put to rest much of the rumors, innuendoes and errant claims by all sides.

One thing I find odd is that these nation states would have accepted tyranny in the guise of a constitution that essentially robs them of all independence. This is not what was intended and despite the errors of the South (siding with the Crowned Heads of EUrope) they were correct in their right to secede (though it would have been horrid had they been successful).

I'm just saying. I recognize what you stated but there IS more to it than that. Much more.

P.S.

I STILL would not wish to see secession of individual states as it would severely weaken these united States of America. Just my two cents.

With a quick google search I found

http://www.texassecede.com

from their home page

"Texas is a free and independent State ... All political power is inherent in the people ... they have at all times the inalienable right to alter their government in such manner as they might think proper."
— Texas Constitution (1876)

"Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever government becomes destructive to life, liberty, or property [i.e., the pursuit of happiness], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it... It is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
— American Declaration of Independence (1776)

[HwyKnight]

If the Federal Gov't does not follow the constitution, like a contract, why wouldn't the states have the right to walk away?

[Gutshot John]

Originally Posted by HwyKnight

If the Federal Gov't does not follow the constitution, like a contract, why wouldn't the states have the right to walk away?

It's not a "contract", it's a Constitution, HUGE difference. From the first days of this Nation, the Union was designed to be "perpetual". The meaning of the word means the same today as it did then.

The Civil War settled this 144 years ago.

The Union CAN be dissolved, by repealing the Constitution. Texas can secede if it gains the consent of 34 other states.

That's what the Constitution means. "Body" the arm can't cut itself off and survive.

[DacoRoman]

"I'll keep my freedom, my $ and my guns. You keep the change."

brilliant

[jc75754]

Being a southerner I seem to remember some of the same ideas surfacing in the past. Did not end up making the south stronger, it weakened it to the point of total collapse. Someone enlighten this governor about the Civil War, apparently he slept through all his high school and college history classes.

[Spade]

I have been seeing a lot the tea party coverages on the news. I watched some on Beck & Hannity today. On one side it is nice to see people coming together for a common cause on the flip side I imagine most of them will just go home thinking they're job is done. Since loosing my job not to long ago I have had quite a bit of time to think about stuff like this. Sure I'm angry but now what call senators who don't listen, write letters that will probably never see the light of day. If I come across as depressing I appolise. I am just tired of every where I look seeing news that pisses me off. Government to me just does not seem to care. Sure these rallies are great for the media (both sides) but I wonder what else can be done. I hope Texas tries to leave the union at least that would be a big show of F U to the federal & maybe that would be enough to get other states thinking. Don't get me wrong I think The United States of America is great but I think we long forgot about the State in a world that seems only concerned with world views.

One last thought does it bother anyone else that they were waiver Union flags yelling Secede!"?

[ZDL]

Originally Posted by jc75754

Being a southerner I seem to remember some of the same ideas surfacing in the past. Did not end up making the south stronger, it weakened it to the point of total collapse. Someone enlighten this governor about the Civil War, apparently he slept through all his high school and college history classes.

Its obvious most of this is solely symbolism. However, times and circumstances are quite different than a century and a half ago. The south was fighting a war at the time. Had the south been able to perseve those resources instead of spending them on war, our history books would be a tad different.

You really think if Texas or any other state sucessfully secedes we would go to war with eachother again? Nah.

Frankly if all this accomplishes is to shake some Americans out of their sleep, ill consider it a sucess.

[Gutshot John]

Originally Posted by ZDL

You really think if Texas or any other state sucessfully secedes we would go to war with eachother again? Nah.

Perhaps you're right, perhaps not, but it's a vastly different issue.

Success is defined by whether they can sustain it. Texas failed to successfully secede the last time it tried.

[The_War_Wagon]

Living here in Pittsburgh the past 6 years - after being born & raised (9th generation) in NC, and as an adult living & working in NC, SC, MS, TX, & KY (as well as IN & PA), I can see, that it is NOT the South that 'needs' the Union; it's the Union that NEEDS the South!

Do the ol' red county/blue county map search of the '08 election, and see how HELPLESS (i.e. - urban) the blue counties ARE. They GROW nothing; they BUILD nothing; they PRODUCE nothing. They are strictly CONSUMERS, consuming MOSTLY the largesse of the red counties.

That's QUITE a turnabout, from 1861...

[variablebinary]

deleted. wrong thread

[thopkins22]

As has been stated Texas reserved the right to secede from the Union when we ceased to be a sovereign nation and joined the US.

Originally Posted by Gutshot John

From our first Constitution, precedent dictates that the Union is "perpetual", read indivisible. Once established the Union cannot be dissolved by secession. It would require a Constitutional Amendment, repealing the Union, for the Union to be dissolved.

Exactly what I expect to hear from someone living on the wrong side of the Mason Dixon Line.

Not to get too far off track, but it's quite clear who the aggressor was during the Civil War, and it's quite clear who's violations of the constitution were worse. Even if we decide to go with your version, at what point to we draw the line? Surely we aren't required to remain part of the union due to the constitution, when nearly every other part of the constitution isn't taken word for word either? I don't think any state would have voluntarily joined if they knew it was a one way road.

Originally Posted by Gutshot John

Texas failed to successfully secede the last time it tried.

Too much dead weight last time....

[ZDL]

Originally Posted by Gutshot John

Perhaps you're right, perhaps not, but it's a vastly different issue.

Success is defined by whether they can sustain it. Texas failed to successfully secede the last time it tried.

However, times and circumstances are quite different than a century and a half ago. The south was fighting a war at the time. Had the south been able to preserve those resources instead of spending them on war, our history books would be a tad different.

Your argument over the definition of success hinges on semantics.

Lastly, if America goes to war with a seceded state I'll eat ostrich feces.

And then there's this which is fairly accurate.

Living here in Pittsburgh the past 6 years - after being born & raised (9th generation) in NC, and as an adult living & working in NC, SC, MS, TX, & KY (as well as IN & PA), I can see, that it is NOT the South that 'needs' the Union; it's the Union that NEEDS the South!

Do the ol' red county/blue county map search of the '08 election, and see how HELPLESS (i.e. - urban) the blue counties ARE. They GROW nothing; they BUILD nothing; they PRODUCE nothing. They are strictly CONSUMERS, consuming MOSTLY the largesse of the red counties.

That's QUITE a turnabout, from 1861...

Bottom line, doubt Texas would ever do it. Like I said, symbolism. Let's see if it's effective.

[Rider79]

Originally Posted by ZDL

You really think if Texas or any other state sucessfully secedes we would go to war with each other again? Nah.

If you're wrong, I'm moving to Texas.