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Old 05-10-2009, 08:52 PM
vaspence Online
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AAR Aim Fast Hit Fast Poconos PA May 8-9 2009

Aim Fast Hit Fast with Todd Green
Poconos PA May 8-9 2009

I was fortunate to get into this class after being on standby. The drive was well worth it. 6 hours from Richmond to Stroudsburg (5.5 on the way home).

I'll probably ramble through this AAR, so bear with me, I drove home last night after class and was busy all day today for Mothers Day.

The facility wasn't hard to find, GPS coordinates took me to the gate from the hotel with no issues. The facility was comparable to my home ranges, maybe a little smaller but very adequate and the clubhouse was nice.

Class size was 14 on TD1 then 13 on TD2. The group got a long well, everyone was pretty even keel, no attitudes that I noticed. Experience of the class varied, some were swimming hard on TD1 but had improved by TD2.

The drills were excellent. I wanted to take a couple pistol classes this year and am glad an opening happened for this one. Some of the drill highlights were the circle drill, dot torture, strong hand weak hand, FAST, etc. You can find all of these on pistol-training.com so I won't go into detail on them. Needless to say I definitely felt pushed hard and will be trying to incorporate a few of these into my shooting plan for much needed accuracy and single handed practice. Once I learn how to get forward in my stance of course.
NOTE: FWIW every guy in the class but one beat my ass at the dot torture drill. I stunk that up bad. It gets better. The one guy I beat by like 1 point? He had broken his left arm and was shooting the whole class strong arm only. This guy was impressive and definitely holding his own.

The instructor? Todd is a good guy. I enjoyed training with him and will do so again. His course of instruction flowed very well. He proved to be more patient than most would have been with a couple of students and it seemed to work out by the end of TD2. His fixes for my issues were accurate and if I can apply them I am confident it will improve my shooting.

I'm sure I'll attend this course again and recommend anyone that is looking to improve their pistol skills take this course.

Before I stop, don't let me forget the host, Kevin from the Blue Ridge Cherry Valley Rod and Gun Club. Kevin was a great host and cook. He fed us very well on the evening of TD1 and it was greatly appreciated. I think he was also overall high shooter for the class and in general just an all around good guy.

Gear -
I shot a G34 with warren plain rear, fiber front for the whole course. I used 999 rounds of Fiocchi 130gr (1 round locked up the gun early on TD1, the rest fired with no issues) and 100 or so Win White Box 115 grain. Overall round count for me was 1100 give or take a few. No issues other than the one round, which when Todd finally got it ejected looked like a .357 sig round in shape. It was a 9mm, the bullet got rammed back into the case somehow.

From my bad memory other guns included an 2 M&P 9s, 2 1911's, 4 or 5 Sigs, an XD, 2 Glocks and a Beretta 92. Todd shot the HK P30. I don't know of any significant issues with any of the pistols, I'm sure someone will chime in if I missed them.


Spence

Last edited by vaspence; 05-10-2009 at 08:56 PM
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:18 AM
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Thanks for the AAR.

Those who have taken Todd's classes seem to almost universally hold that he can help you improve your skill with a handgun. I'd like to test this theory for myself, but he keeps dodging me like he owes me money or something.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:15 AM
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I'll second Spence's comments -- this was an excellent class. I've known Todd for about 10 years and did a small-group force on force session with him 7-8 years ago, but this was the first formal class of his that I'd taken.

I'll especially second the compliments to our host. After shooting hard all day, Kevin grilled a pile of steaks that were about as big as my size 12 boots.

We had a great mix of students, from several IDPA competitors, to a police Lt. at a pretty big nearby department, to a couple of French businessmen from Philly. Interesting mix of guns, too. There were more SIGs and fewer Glocks than you usually see, and I believe Todd got to see a 1911 get through the entire class without a malfunction for the first time (despite his efforts to jinx John T. verbally on Day 2).

This is a shooting class, not a "fighting" class, and all the drills were appropriately chosen and effective for that purpose.

Even the team drills, which Todd claims "have no training value whatsoever," were not only great fun but actually were excellent ways to induce mild stress and develop the ability to keep your mind functioning while shooting.

(I won't spoil the surprise for future students by describing the specifics of the team drills, but when I described them to my brother and sister-in-law at dinner that night, my SIL said, "So, it was like summer camp, but with guns.")

As Spence mentioned, most of the drills are on Todd's website at www.pistol-training.com -- but as always, there's no substitute for personal instruction.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:26 AM
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Thanks, for sharing. Nice AAR!
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by John_Wayne777 View Post
Thanks for the AAR.

Those who have taken Todd's classes seem to almost universally hold that he can help you improve your skill with a handgun. I'd like to test this theory for myself, but he keeps dodging me like he owes me money or something.

I can agree with this statement...



Nice AAR btw
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:11 AM
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If you ever get a chance to attend Todd L. Green's "Aim Fast- Hit Fast" class, do it!
Todd is a good instructor with a keen eye. He finds all kinds of things to help you correct your stance, trigger pull and reloads. The drills he has you shoot test every possible gun handling skill and he even makes them fun (sorta).
I might not have made Todd a believer in the 1911 type pistol but at least he got to see one "go the distance". John T.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:01 AM
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thanks for the AAR.

hey todd ... if you're offering this class again the the poconos anytime soon, let us know! only a 2 hour drive for me!
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JT45 View Post
If you ever get a chance to attend Todd L. Green's "Aim Fast- Hit Fast" class, do it!
Todd is a good instructor with a keen eye. He finds all kinds of things to help you correct your stance, trigger pull and reloads. The drills he has you shoot test every possible gun handling skill and he even makes them fun (sorta).
I might not have made Todd a believer in the 1911 type pistol but at least he got to see one "go the distance". John T.
1600 rounds of 45! Your handle should have been "Iron Hands"

If you want to improve your pistol shooting skillset, this class will help you.
Todd helped my fix my grip which several other instructors had said to hell with you are hitting and hitting well it is good enough.
Now when I have enough practice reps in, I can tell when I have a good shot just by the action of the shot.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:08 AM
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If you ever get a chance to attend Todd L. Green's "Aim Fast- Hit Fast" class, do it!
There are still spots available in the August 29-30 AFHF class in Los Alamos, NM.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28980
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:54 AM
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1600 rounds of 45! Your handle should have been "Iron Hands"
JT45 and I were on the same target for different relays. He not only made his .45 go the distance, he did it in fine style.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:33 PM
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[quote=Nathan_Bell;369152]1600 rounds of 45! Your handle should have been "Iron Hands"

Well, I didn't exactly shoot 1600 rounds. I brought 1600 rounds with me but only managed to shoot about 1000 of them. Those little 8 round mags made it hard to hose the targets. John t.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:45 PM
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JT45, tell us about your 1911.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:39 PM
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My 1911 is a Dan Wesson Patriot. I won it in 2003 and it just passed the 30,000 round milestone. All I ever do to keep it running is change recoil springs and firing pin springs. It still has the original external extractor which is very worn and loose but still extracts all fired cases. It started out a deep bluish black but is now a kind of mottled grayish color. At last years IDPA Nationals one of the SO's said it looked like a comfortable "old pair of shoes". I would have to agree. John T.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for all the kind words, everyone. The class was a lot of fun and once again we were able to channel our combined tactical energy to prevent the predicted thunderstorms from happening. Special thanks to the host, as John Frazer mentioned, for generously providing a huge steak dinner for all the students after the first day of class!

As for JT45, what can I say? He successfully made it through the class shooting a 1911 without a single stoppage of any kind, and he won the Most Accurate Shooter award, and he won the "Top Gun" award for having the best time on the F.A.S.T. drill, and he was on the winning team for the final team competition. Pretty selfish of him, if you ask me. Didn't share top honors with anyone.

Hope to do another class in Stroudsburg next year. Great facility and great students.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:49 PM
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Thanks for all the kind words, everyone. The class was a lot of fun and once again we were able to channel our combined tactical energy to prevent the predicted thunderstorms from happening. Special thanks to the host, as John Frazer mentioned, for generously providing a huge steak dinner for all the students after the first day of class!

As for JT45, what can I say? He successfully made it through the class shooting a 1911 without a single stoppage of any kind, and he won the Most Accurate Shooter award, and he won the "Top Gun" award for having the best time on the F.A.S.T. drill, and he was on the winning team for the final team competition. Pretty selfish of him, if you ask me. Didn't share top honors with anyone.

Hope to do another class in Stroudsburg next year. Great facility and great students.




Who's the wiseguy who made kind words???
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:07 PM
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Thumbs up

I apologize for not posting any pictures with my AAR. I had my hands, I mean hand, full during this course and lacked the ability to take any pictures.

COURSE

Aim Fast, Hit Fast Poconos, PA May 8-9, 2009

Let me start off by saying, if you ever have the opportunity to take a course or some form of training with an ailment (provided it can be done safely without further harm to yourself or others) DO IT! I shot this entire course strong-hand only (without painkillers since oxycodone and firearms are not a good combination) as a result of three fractures to my weak-hand wrist. Could I have backed out and sat at home nursing my wounds? Yes. But would I have experienced a challenge that really pushed me outside my comfort zone? No. I’m not making this statement looking for applause or self-gratification. The reality of the situation is when something goes down, we are most likely going to have to deal with less than ideal conditions. Why train any other way when the opportunity presents itself?

Aim Fast, Hit Fast is not a beginner’s course; I would classify it as strong intermediate. And as John previously commented, it is also not a tactics/fighting course but a shooting course. As the title preludes, Aim Fast, Hit Fast is about blending speed with accuracy.

After the paperwork (Hmm, I wonder if Todd ever went to law school?) and a safety review was completed, TD1 began with some simple marksmanship drills at different distances and the first of four FAST tests. Our performance was evaluated to see where the class stood as a whole. From there we moved on to drills to build on our marksmanship skills, or lack of. Other drills included building speed without sacrificing accuracy and press outs. TD1 ended with dinner at the club house for those that stuck around. I left with a sense of accomplishment, clarity on where I needed to improve, and two aching wrists. Shooting 700 or so rounds within eight hours with your strong hand only really starts to take its toll.

TD2 focused on strong and weak hand only shooting, as well as shooting on the move and shooting from cover. We also did the infamous Dot Torture drill. I really wish I could had done that drill again. Going into TD2, I think a lot of the class was worried about the strong and weak hand only shooting. From what I could see, I think everyone did better than they had originally expected, especially when the slowed down. TD2 also provided drills with heightened stress and that made you react quickly. Imagine have a course of fire laid out only to be told immediately before the buzzer that you had to make all shots from your weak hand only. For my stress inducer, I had to sit in a chair like I was handicap or something. TD2 ended with the final FAST test and graduation.

We had a team drill each day that was very interesting and extremely fun. (Sorry, no spoilers here.) While this course wasn’t about leadership or team-building, I could certainly see these drills being used in military and LE training. Aside from the “team-building” aspect, the drills mixed healthy competition, thinking on your feet, and stress. The team drill on TD2 was a hoot!

Instructor – Todd Louis Green

Todd is an outstanding instructor. His vast experience and jovial character bring the right balance of professionalism and humor that promote a progressive, instructional, and fun experience. He is respectful of others practices but provides sound and constructive critique without stepping on the receiver’s toes. He kept the drills rolling and paid only enough attention to those that fell behind the curve to maintain safety and provide some criticism. I really appreciated that he provided me with input despite me being a “gimp” while not obstructing the fast-paced nature of the course. Todd also readily provides input, recommendations, and stories based on his experiences. I know that he definitely kept me engaged and motivated.

Favorite Instructor Comment: “Man, I’ll help load your mags, but if you’re going to jerk-off during the course, I’m going to have to shoot you.” – Todd Green to me as I was trying to adjust my belt one-handed.

Class

The class was a great group of 14 guys (minus one on TD2). Experience varied from a few guys who have only been shooting a few months to seasoned competitors and a very skilled LEO. The handgun platforms were a varied mix, and as Spence mentioned, included M&Ps, Glocks, Sigs, two 1911s, an XD, and a Beretta 92. I don’t think anyone had any major problems with their guns, even though Todd tried to put a voodoo hex on the 1911s. Overall, you could see an improvement in the class’s speed and accuracy.

On a personal note, I would like to thank everyone who helped me keep may mags topped off and who were willing to help me out when and where needed. I am greatly appreciative and indebted to you.


LOCATION

Facilities

The course was held at Blue Ridge Cherry Valley Rod and Gun Club near Stroudsburg, PA. I had no problem finding the range and highly recommend using GPS coordinates; they got me to the front gate with no problem. The handgun range was a little small compared to what I am used to, but there was plenty of room given the drills and class size.

Host

Kevin hosted the course, and what can be said other than he did an excellent job. Heck, the guy even made us T-Bone steaks for dinner. I think it was John Frazer who stated the Kevin is the “host with the most.” Kevin, thanks for the great job and for filling our stomachs!


PERSONAL GEAR

Firearm

I shot my S&W M&P9 kitted with Bowie Tactical operators and the JohnO DIY High-Viz front sight treatment. There were no mechanical issues except for one FTF which was the result of a clump of dirt being in the magazine. I ran my Crimson Trace grips (with the laser off) and had I really thought of it, I should have changed the grip size to small to provide a fuller one-handed purchase. I was really happy with the M&P9’s performance, especially shooting it strong-hand only. --Added: The M&P9 was dirty going into the course (about 3,000 rounds) and was not cleaned during the course. The only maintenance was a little lube at the end of TD1--

Magazines

I used ten (10) S&W 17-round magazines. Some were 1st gen (both black and gray followers) and 2nd gen which were equally rotated throughout both TDs. No issues with the mags except for the clump of dirt I mentioned above. This really wasn’t the magazine’s fault. The amount of self-inspection was lacking on my part since others loaded my magazines for me.

Holster & Magazine Carriers

For this course I used Comp-Tac’s belt holster and magazine carriers. I had no problems with them. The holster saw significant abuse as all my reloads were done from the holster. If anything, I should have lightened the tension a little on the mag carriers. The tension was a little on the heavy side, especially for the angle my strong-hand pulled the magazines at. It definitely felt slower but was not detrimental.

Ammunition

I used Remington UMC 115gr. 9mm. My total round count was 1,237 for the two days. I didn’t think to count at the end of TD1. My count is most likely higher than others as I participated on both lines for several drills. No ammo related problems whatsoever with the UMC, and it was all from the same lot.


CONCLUDING REMARKS

AFHF was an excellent course and I had a great two days. I didn’t shoot near as well as I had hoped or am accustomed to. I would like to blame that on a combination of the pain from the wrist fractures and shooting strong-hand only, but when I really think about it, there are no excuses. In a real-life SHTF situation, there are no excuses… either you survive or you die.

Some of the lessons learned: I need to SLOW down. I need to concentrate on the front sight and work the trigger during press outs. Mind over matter is really true. Murphy is present even afterwards at your hotel. (There was a wedding reception with plenty of attractive chicks in attendance and it was ladies’ night at the hotel’s bar/club… Where was I? Back in my room taking painkillers and sleeping. The chicks would have loved my pink medical wrap!)

While I may not have earned a FAST challenge coin, Todd did cut my T-Bone steak for me, which I consider a close second!

In Spence’s AAR, he made it sound like he can’t shoot worth crap. Spence is actually a great shooter (provided he doesn’t stand rigidly upright). I know you gave Todd back his $20, but I think you owed him more than that!

I would highly recommend this AFHF to anyone who has some other courses and/or competitions under their belt and is looking to further build their accuracy at speed. I am without doubt going to take this course again once I am all healed up. Maybe I’ll even try to host… how does AFHF Hollidaysburg, PA sound?

Thanks to Todd, Kevin, Spence, John, and all my other classmates!

Last edited by eagle5; 05-15-2009 at 06:44 PM Reason: Added material
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:29 PM
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Eagle5 and other classmates, I took a couple photos during the class. I couldn't figure out how to include them in a "post". If anyone wants copies, please PM me your email address and I'll send them to you. John T.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:44 PM
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My 1911 is a Dan Wesson Patriot. I won it in 2003 and it just passed the 30,000 round milestone. All I ever do to keep it running is change recoil springs and firing pin springs. It still has the original external extractor which is very worn and loose but still extracts all fired cases. It started out a deep bluish black but is now a kind of mottled grayish color. At last years IDPA Nationals one of the SO's said it looked like a comfortable "old pair of shoes". I would have to agree. John T.
Please post pics:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=106&page=55

Nice AAR
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:07 PM
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I know you gave Todd back his $20, but I think you owed him more than that!

Dude, that was all Todd smelling easy money, no way I'da took that bet.
Good shooting with you and I look forward to doing it again. I reckon you'll do the next class weak hand only?
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:50 PM
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I reckon you'll do the next class weak hand only?
Hell yeah!
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