Which wadcutter is supreme?

167 · #1 06-08-09, 00:06

In some recent post we have seen inconsistent performance from one of the better .38 special loads (135gr +p GD) and the new Hornady FTX, leaving the Corbon DPX which is nearly prohibitively expensive, especially if you plan on doing at least some practice with it (at least it is for me). So I was wondering which of the wad cutters is best? I know Remington uses a softer lead in their 158gr +p LSWCHP than Winchester does in their version of the same load, does Remington also use a softer lead in their full wad cutter? It is my understanding that a harder lead is preferable for wad cutters, correct?

Also, what are people's thoughts on wad cutter loads from reloaders like Georgia Arms? Are they something that could serve as a defensive round or is it best to stick with one of the major manufacturers? Thanks.

Beat Trash · #2 06-08-09, 10:15

Do you mean wadcutters or semi wadcutters?

Most wadcutters are 148 gr. These are good especially if recoil is an issue with the shooter. I don't know if there is all that much difference between the different manufactures.

Semi wadcutters, usually 158 gr., come in solid and hollow point. I carried the SWCHP +P in the early 1980's. From what I understand, they can plug up when going through clothing, ect.

167 · #3 06-08-09, 11:30

I am refering to full wadcutters. I was just wondering because there seems a fair bit of difference between the hardness of LSWCHP bullets between the major manufacturers so I wasn't sure if this carried over to full wadcutters too.

DocGKR · #4 06-08-09, 12:16

A harder one with the sharpest leading edge possible is ideal--solid brass, copper, or other hard material would be ideal, as long as it does not get classified as "AP" by the BATF...

Wayne Dobbs · #5 06-08-09, 14:07

You might consider this one:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=111

Mikey · #6 06-08-09, 14:16

Wayne nailed it. BB is great stuff.

PA PATRIOT · #7 06-08-09, 17:42

It looks like the leading edges are rounded/tapered on those B/B loads, Safe Stop had one truly sharp leading edge with its full FMJ cup-faced wad cutter design but its a shame that the manufacturer shut down.

Jack-O · #8 06-08-09, 18:36

BB claims they use a hard cast lead lead at 150gr in that WC linked above. I'd start there.

167 · #9 06-08-09, 23:43

With the BB load it would seem you lose the whole "low recoil" aspect of using wadcutters since it launches at a pretty fair speed from the barrel, and it is pretty pricey for a wadcutter. I may have to try some out though.

I guess all the major manufacturer wadcutters are not made from a hard enough lead to really get what is desiriable in a defensive wadcutter?

There is a local company (kind of like Georgia Arms) that loads ammunition and they load a 158gr wadcutter over 3.1gr of bullseye powder which it is my understanding that that is a "mid-range" load for a wadcutter. The bullet appears to be made out of a harder lead than the Remington wadcutters I have seen, but other than that I can't really say much. Assuming it is, would you guys think it is possibly a worthwhile round to at least look in to?

I am new to .38 special snubnose revolvers, that is the reason for all the questions. Thanks.

mourneblade · #10 06-09-09, 13:38

I recently got a snubnose(LCR). I just went with a couple of boxes of DPX. Since it's a revolver you don't need to go through extensive functionality testing like you would an automatic using a certain round. At the ranges where I would use my snubnose I don't find the point of aim for various rounds all that different for defensive shooting purposes. Really I just need a feel for the recoil and trigger pull. So I planned to shoot a small amount of the DPX and mainly practice with cheaper rounds. Just my 2 cents...

Glock17JHP · #11 06-09-09, 14:46

I like the Winchester Super Match 148 grain HBWC load...

My wife can shoot the feelers off a fly at 100 yards with it (joking)...

Actually, she is super accurate with it, and the front edges of the bullet seem to not deform much at all. I shot some into my water tank and there seems to be very little deformation there. I know water is not gelatin, but it should deform a bullet like that at least as much as gelatin would...

She shoots it out of her 3 inch S&W Model 64... she loves that load!!!

bernieb90 · #12 06-10-09, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocGKR

A harder one with the sharpest leading edge possible is ideal--solid brass, copper, or other hard material would be ideal, as long as it does not get classified as "AP" by the BATF...

Doc,
How would one get around that definition. It seems solid copper would be OK since it is not a listed material. I have written to the BATF, but never got a response on this exact issue.

Glock17JHP · #13 06-17-09, 14:38

Sad... I looked online trying to buy some of Winchester's Super Match 148 grain Lead Wad Cutters for my wife... they want about $30.00 per box of 50, give or take a few $$$... and even after that shock, everyone is OUT!!!

So I looked for Sellier & Bellot's version...

Cabela's has it for about $15.00 per box of 50... I ordered 6 boxes... I intend to compare the lead hardness between the 2 loads... perhaps the S&B version is 'just as good'???

rly45acp · #14 06-17-09, 18:21

I purchased a couple of boxes of the Buffalo Bore wadcutter loads a couple of summers ago for testing and was a bit disappointed. The powder smoked very badly -- like half as bad as black powder, and it would definitely not be something I'd want in a daylight situation. The bullet itself was not a true wadcutter, as the edges were beveled, giving less cutting area and producing a significantly smaller frontal area. In spite of Tims' claim of using hard alloyed lead, the loads leaded up the barrel in short order. I'll have to check back to see if I still have the chronograph data, and if I do, I'll post it. Accuracy at subsequent testing proved to be mediocre at best, so I used what was left after testing for practice ammo.

Since then I've stuck with the WW loading, but after Doctor Roberts comments on the Cor Bon load, I plan to move to these as soon as they are available again.

cathellsk · #15 06-17-09, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by rly45acp

The powder smoked very badly -- like half as bad as black powder, and it would definitely not be something I'd want in a daylight situation.

Tell me about it! I shot some awhile back and thought I was at a SASS match!

rly45acp · #16 06-17-09, 19:18

Found the data. It was further back than I remembered; September 25, 2007.

Here's my notes from another forum:

Tested the Buffalo Bore Item 20B 150 gr. WC yesterday. Temperature was 80 degrees Fahrenheit, elevation here is just over 300 ft.

Used an older non-+P rated 642 S&W, 1 7/8" bbl. Testing done 8 feet from chronograph in a ten shot string.

Velocities:
LO: 896 fps
Hi: 931 fps
Avg: 913.6
ES: 35.45
SD: 18.86

Unable to test for accuracy since I had surgery last Wednesday on my right ring finger to remove a ganglion. I shot weak hand, unsupported.

Recoil is subjective, but it felt identical to some old Winchester standard velocity 158 gr. RN's that averaged only 718 fps, but more than some old reloads that gave an average of 694 fps.

Though a wadcutter, this load has a bevel on the shoulder and this is a bit of a concern. Dr. Gary K. Roberts has stated he will test this load some time this year, so until his results are in, I can't say it is as good as the now defunkt Safe Stop load, which had a very sharp shoulder.

What I liked:
1. The velocity is fantastic for being standard pressure and only fired in a 1 7/8" bbl.
2. Recoil acceptable in the 15 oz. airweight, even shooting weak hand.

What I didn't like:
1. Smokes badly. Enough that it would give your position away if you were shooting from cover in an area that would mask your position (think open warehouse, etc.). Very noticeable.
2. Though listed as very hard cast, ten rounds leaded the barrel to the same extent I used to get shooting the old Winchester 158 gr. SWC 357's from a Model 19 back in the 70's. I didn't have any jacketed rounds to clean the barrel out and knew I'd have a job cleaning the barrel when my hand heals. I subsequently fired a cylinder full of reloads using bullets we cast ourselves and these lead rounds (VERY hard cast) actually cleaned it out. (Yeah!!!)

Concerns:
1. As stated above, the bullet profile; not a true sharp shouldered cylinder. However, for those using older, non-+P rated snubbies, this load wouild be great for reloads, since it is far easier to load fast than a true wadcutter.

I wish Tim had used the same sharp shouldered bullet of the Safe Stop, but cast significantly harder.

More testing to follow, once my hand heals sufficiently.

Glock17JHP · #17 06-17-09, 23:51

That velocity is pretty high... maybe even close to +P velocities...

Winchester Super Match 148 grain Lead Wad Cutter goes about 710 FPS...

167 · #18 06-18-09, 23:26

I tried some of the locally manufactured FWC I mentioned above and they were excessively smokey too. I wonder if BB uses bullseye powder on their FWC load as well like the ones I shot today. I don't have access to a chronograph so I have no idea what muzzle velocity might have been but there wasn't quite as much felt recoil as with the 135gr +p GD's or 130gr +p PDX1 I shot today. They dirtied up my gun a lot too, and there was some lead build up in the barrel after 50 rounds.

Has anyone fired the new standard pressure Hornady FTX rounds? Do they have significantly milder recoil than the +p offerings that are typical for snubnoses? I was just wondering if they would be a possible HP round that offers recoil close to the FWC rounds available. Only problem is it has been shown to not always expand and if it doesn't, it isn't going to do much in the way of wounding because of it's front profile.

I would be interested to hear how those S&B FWC rounds do for you Glock17JHP when you get them in if you don't mind posting a short range report if you have a chance?

Glock17JHP · #19 06-19-09, 11:48

167,

What specific information are you interested in??? We have been using/shooting the Winchester Super Match load for many years now...

167 · #20 06-19-09, 12:56

Level of recoil, shape and hardness of FWC (are the edges sharp, etc), and that is about it I guess. Just in general how they shoot and what your impression is. Thanks.