Which dedicated .22 AR upper/complete gun did you buy and why?

rob_s · #1 06-20-09, 07:54

Known complete uppers:
CMMG
Model 1 Sales
Spike's Tactical
Tactical Solutions

Known complete guns:
Colt/Umarex M4 Carbine .22 Tactical Rimfire
Smith & Wesson M&P15-22 and threaded barrel model

What I want to know is:

what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

what I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.

SeriousStudent · #2 06-20-09, 09:18

I bought the TacSol upper.

1. Reading threads on here, and seeing member comments. LtCol Blish, Grant and others were proponents of the TacSol upper.

2. None. I had not shot either one, so I was going off member feedback. I had fired a Model 1 Sales .22 upper, and decided to pursue another path.

3. Excellent. It's accurate with irons, very easily to clean, and reliable with Black Dog mags.

4. The first two magazines experienced two FTE's each. This was with brand new mags, on a brand new upper. I was using Federal .22 Bulk Pack. I broke down the weapon, and added some more TW-25B to the internal rails, and it has worked flawlessly since. Two different mags, same ammo, brand new mags that have not had an issue since.

5. See above. I merely increased the lube a bit during the first 150 rounds.

6. Only 650-ish rounds so far. It's getting another 1100 next weekend.

7. No malf's after the initial two magazines mentioned. That was a total of 4 FTE's, which were very quick to clear. (I could almost hear Mr. Costa's voice in my head going "Okay, now power-stroke!")

8. Ridiculously happy. Everyone that has shot it walks away with a big goofy grin on their face. I have bought a Aimpoint C3 and a American Defense mount for it per your recommendation, and will wring that out next weekend.

9. Not at all. I love it. It's my fifth AR. I have it running on a CD lower with a G&R LPK, and all MOE gear. I'm going to buy another just like it for my daughter.

mpardun · #3 06-20-09, 09:30

10% Fathers day discount and $25 Black Dog Mags ($10 off) put me over the edge this am!

http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/...t.asp?idpage=9

RogerinTPA · #4 06-20-09, 09:46

I saw colt/umarex M-4 carbine for $600.00 on J&G sales. It's a complete rifle if anyone's interested.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/3581

Niall of the Nine · #5 06-20-09, 09:47

I purchased the Tactical Solutions "LT"

1. what made you choose one over the other?
2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

Had not seen either in the flesh, just liked the Tactical Solutions web presentation. (I know... but sometimes you just get a good feeling about something and have to take a chance.)

3. what were your initial impressions?

Very positive. The materials, machining, fit and finish are beautiful.

4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

Problem with 4# Timney Trigger. Failures to fire due to its light hammer spring. Replaced it with two stage LMT trigger, problem solved. (T.S. specifically recommends using military triggers).

6. what's your current round count up to?

Am now nearing 600 rounds.

7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

None, since trigger swap at 120 rounds.

8. what is your current impression of your purchase?

Positive. Very good accuracy and reliability. 100% function, even with cheap Federal "value pack" rounds. (With CCI Standard Velocity the smoothness and "quietness" (unsuppressed) is almost seductive.)

Only complaints: Like most 22 AR uppers, does no lock back after final round. And, the carrier can slide out of upper when off lower. Unlike a conventional AR-15 upper, the charging handle does not retain the carrier.... so, if you tilt the upper rearward (when off the lower) you will be in a "think fast" situation!

9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

Not yet... I've seen several conversions that use the .223 barrel and have out shot all of them (even against known better shooters). All comments from others have been positive, and two orders that I know of have resulted.

rob_s · #6 06-20-09, 09:49

added a question 10 re: ammo. most of you have already addressed it.

SeriousStudent · #7 06-20-09, 10:21

Rob, I have only shot Federal .22 Bulk Pack in mine. TacSol specifically warns against using Remington Golden Bullets, so I never bothered to try them.

I have a couple of thousand rounds of Aguila .22, and I may try that next weekend, just for eval purposes. However, that particular load does not cycle reliably in my daughter's P-22, and has been relegated to revolver use only. it would be great to burn it up in the TacSol upper.

I am itching to try some Federal Auto Match, and some Eley, and see what kind of groups I can get with those, along with the new 2MOA Aimpoint C3. The problem is that it's easier to find Krugerrands here, than it is to get Federal ammo right now.

uspc9mm · #8 06-20-09, 18:15

I have a Spikes 5.5 inch upper that I run exclusively with a silencer. I have a DPMS hammer and BDM mags.

1)what made you choose one over the other?
- I was buying a factory sbr from them at the time.

2)what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
-Delivery was much faster than I expected.

3)what were your initial impressions?
-I noticed that a lot of the FTF problems people on the forums had seem to be fixed by increasing the feed lip on the bottom portion of the barrel chamber. I noticed that the Spikes upper already had this done.

4)what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
-I initially shot 200+ rds of minimags with a suppressor thru it. I had a few malfunctions here and there but the lower was also new too. I never clipped any of the recoil spring bc I didnt want the gun to potentially have return to battery problems.

5)what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
- I used a little bit of tetra grease on the rails and on the hammer, thats it.

6)what's your current round count up to?
-A few thousand.....

7)how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
-Ive probably had no more than a handful of malfunctions and they have Decreased. Its 100% now. It tends to have problems after about 1k rounds of no cleaning. Running a bore snake thru it seems to clear up any problems though.

8)what is your current impression of your purchase?
- I like it but my only beef is the recoil spring guide rod. The recoil spring is held on by an E-clip. If the e-clip snaps you have an expensive malfunction. Spikes is supposedly working on a one-piece guide rod. With a one piece the guide rod the whole setup would be rock solid.

9)do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
-Im happy with it.
10)what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
- CCI blazers in my experience are the best bulk ammo followed by Win Xperts. The upper shoots Rem and CCI subsonics without problem. In my experience the Fed bulk ammo has been inconsistent

Im no Spikes fanboy but Im pretty content with my .22 upper.

TonyM · #9 06-20-09, 18:59

Tac sol- I tried the CMMG drop in unit but with a 1/7 twist barrel all I got was a pattern not a group.

I started with a new LMT lower but with a 25% failure rate I was pretty dissatisified. I changed to a well used RR lower and now I have a 99.8% success rate. The upper did not fit either lower well and I had to remove small amounts of metal in the mounting holes to get the pins to go through. I think the new springs might have been too much for the little .22 to overcome. I have about 1100-1200 rnds through it. Yesterday I ran about 150 rnds thru it and had 3 cases fail to fully eject, they would extract but not fully eject spin around and lodge in the extractor. Could be because I did not clean it after the last time I took it to the range. The last range session I shot about 300 rnds and only had 2 failure to eject. I am using Federal bulk pack and Federal target ammo. It also shoots WW bulk ammo fine. It does not like the Rem Golden Bullet but they tell you that up front.

While I was having problems Tac Sol was giving me ideas as to a fix and offered to give me a RGA to send it back several times. They wanted me to be 100% satisfied with their product.

Now that I have the bugs worked out I am very satisfied. I take a T1 off one of my other rifles and it prints about 1 inch low at 25 yds. I have not put it on a rest but offhand rapid fire I get about a 1 1/2 to 2 inch group. For the price of 2 cases of .223 I can now shoot all afternoon for about $ 15.00. Other than the bolt falling out when the halves are separated, and the bolt catch won't hold the bolt back I have no complaints.

SeriousStudent · #10 06-20-09, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpardun

10% Fathers day discount and $25 Black Dog Mags ($10 off) put me over the edge this am!

http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/...t.asp?idpage=9

Thanks for that heads-up! I just snagged five more mags, and have my 10 now. That got me five mags for the price of three!

wahoo95 · #11 06-22-09, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_s

What I want to know is:

what made you choose one over the other? I read great things about it and it has a Nickle Coated Bolt!
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? None.....first order from ST.
what were your initial impressions? I love it! Worked right out the box until i started tinkering to get it to run Aguila 38gr SS ammo.
what, if any, break-in issues did you have? None....worked right out the box.
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? I made a few changes with the Lakeside Spring kit to get it to run with Aguila 38gr SS ammo which led to light strikes. Have since returned it to stock configuration and it runs like a top. Since it's now broken in it even runs well on SS ammo.....it prefers Winchester SS.
what's your current round count up to? I've probably got about 5k rounds through it.
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? Not sure since I had lots when I made the spring changes. Since returning to the factory configuration I only get an occasional ammo related jam associated with rimfire ammo.
what is your current impression of your purchase? I love it! Was suprosed at how accurate it was so I put an inexpensive scope on it to see what it would do. Will easily shoot 1" groups at 25yds.
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? Nope
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

Winchester Dynapoint, 333, & Xpert HV
Federal Bulk Pack
Eley Sport
CCI Standard & Blazer
Aguila 38gr SS(very quiet!)

what I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.

Answers in bold above. I went with the Spikes Dedicated Upper. I plan on having the barrel shortened at some point.

Phazuka · #12 06-23-09, 18:49

I have a spikes ST-22 SD and I have the M4 model on order with the Walther barrel. I'm thinking of cancelling that order for a CMMG M4 model.

1. what made you choose one over the other? The cute asian girl from Spikes Tactical, MJ.
2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? Only the web reviews on TOS
3. what were your initial impressions? Great dedicated upper, no failures attributed to the upper itself, only attributed to the 1st gen BDM's.
4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have? 1st Gen BDM mag issues with the flat followers
5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? bought mag rebuild kits
6. what's your current round count up to? Almost 500
7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? About 3 per mag, attributed solely to the mags. 2nd gen 15 round mags work fine with no malfuctions or stoppages
8. what is your current impression of your purchase? Best .22lr evar!
9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? I'm getting a 2nd M4 model, just to have.
10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper? FVP

CleverNickname · #13 06-23-09, 19:19

never mind

Yojimbo · #14 06-24-09, 11:47

What I want to know is:

what made you choose one over the other?
I chose a TacSol M4 upper due to high praise it got from Grant, Pat Rogers and FJB.
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
I had no experience with any of the other dedicated .22 uppers.
what were your initial impressions?
I very was impressed with it's construction.
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
I had quite a few FTF/FTE issues during the first 500 rounds. I've determined that part of the issue was user based. I ran the .22 BCG very wet like my 5.56 BCG's which isn't a good thing for a blow back operated weapon.

I had also used Remington Thunderbolts which were not recommended for use by TacSol. Now I use Winchester Dynapoints and Federal 550 which have proven to be very reliable with the TacSol upper.

The other cause of the FTF issues were that the firing pin was a bit too short. TacSol provided me with new FP that was .0300 longer and that has cured the FTF issue.
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
The changes that caused my TacSOl to function reliably were using Fed 550 ammo, running the BCG almost dry and installing the longer firing pin.
what's your current round count up to?
Around 6k.
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
I don't have an exact number but I know it was greatly reduced after 500 rounds and is down to maybe 5-15 rounds per 500. My guess is that most of the malfunctions I'm seeing now are just due to quality of bulk ammo.
what is your current impression of your purchase?
I'm very happy with my purchase and would recommend the TacSol uppers to anyone looking for a dedicated .22 upper.
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
No, because I basically see the same issues happening with the other dedicated uppers. IMHO, the .22 uppers are all somewhat sensitive to ammo and over lubing issues. Once you find a good combo of ammo and maintenance they should run really well.
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

I have never really tested for accuracy but I was able to get about 2"-2.5" groups at 50 yards with Fed 550 using irons. That was good enough for my purposes but I have seen reports that the Rock Creek barrel used with the TacSol uppers are much more accurate than that.

Fed 550 bulk and Winchester Dynapoints are most reliable with my .22 upper.

Jeep297 · #15 07-03-09, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_s

Choice: Spike dedicated .22 upper, 16" walther barrel.

What I want to know is:

what made you choose one over the other? I heard a lot of good reviews about them.
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? I had no experience prior to purchase
what were your initial impressions? I love it! It's been amazing so far.
what, if any, break-in issues did you have? No issues yet
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? none
what's your current round count up to? A little over 1300
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? I've had 2 malfunctions so far. One in the first mag and one at the end of the day. This was probably due to how dirty it was since I went through 600 rounds that day.
what is your current impression of your purchase? I could not be happier. It's now my wife's and I just bought another for myself
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? nope
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper? I've only shot Federal bulk packs and CCI minimag so far but it seems to love the bulk packs.

.

Here's a pic of my wife with her target. She was having so much fun that she decided to shoot out the orange in the middle.

Stan_TheGunNut · #16 07-04-09, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_s

Known complete uppers:
CMMG
Model 1 Sales
Spike's Tactical
Tactical Solutions

What I want to know is:

what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

1) I purchased a Spikes based on some good reviews of them.

2) This was my first purchase from Spikes. It took around a month to get the upper. From talking with them, this was due to a parts availability issue with the rail. I had ordered a custom barrel length and expected it to take a little longer. I was able to communicate with one of their employees via email, and was kept aware of what the status of my upper was. I also spoke on the phone with one of their employees on a couple of occasions. Overall, my experience with them has been positive.

3) When I opened the box yesterday, my initial impressions were positive. A closer inspection gave me some pause though. I specifically ordered the upper to use with a silencer. To my eye, it looked like the bore was off center. This turned out to not be the case though. I shot it today with my silencer and had no issue in that regard. The only thing I'm dissatisfied with is that where the barrel was cut down and threaded, there is bare steel. It's not finished like the rest of the barrel. I'll probably do something to it because I dont' want any rust.

4) I managed to take it to the range for an hour or so today. The only ammo I had on hand was some Remington Golden Bullets, and some Federal (the variety of which I don't remember). The Federal would not cycle the gun at all, not once. After a few magazines, the Remington Golden Bullets functioned flawlessly. I only put perhaps 200 rounds thru the rifle (a guess...I don't normally keep a round count). The gun was shot as it came out of the box. I had not cleaned or lubed it.

5) I just shot it, and with Remington Golden Bullets, it seems to work fine.

6-10) Maybe 200 rounds give or take and so far I'm pleased. It's still too new to really answer the other questions.

militarymoron · #17 07-05-09, 17:53

answers in bold

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_s

What I want to know is:

what made you choose one over the other?
Spike's ST-22. The others weren't out at the time, except for Tacsol, which was other people were having problems with at that time.
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
full story on my website here http://www.militarymorons.com/weapon...s2.html#spikes
what were your initial impressions?
see above link.
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
see above link
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
first barrel did not feed - had to smooth out feedramp and entrance to chamber. accuracy was unacceptable. spikes switched it out and upgraded to a lothar walther barrel, which performed very well (See link). i cut the recoil spring down by 1/2".
what's your current round count up to?
around 5k-6k
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
not counting initial problems with first barrel, it now malfunctions only with federal bulk pack. CCI mini mags work 99% of the time but american eagle 38gr have been flawless.
what is your current impression of your purchase?
best purchase of the year - fun and inexpensive to shoot
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
nope - happy with it and no reason to change
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
38 gr american eagle followed by CCI mini mags

superman07 · #18 07-06-09, 09:20

What I want to know is:

1. what made you choose one over the other?
Picked up a Spikes based upon reccomendations at TOS.
2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
None before purchase.
3. what were your initial impressions?
Good, build quality was fine.
4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
Ran on a old DPMS lower but not on a dedicated spikes 22lr lower. Adjusted the hammer spring and went with a lighter JP Unit.
5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
Lightened the hammer spring. Stag spring was too tight.
6. what's your current round count up to?
Lost count, several thousand based upon number of 550 boxes retired.
7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
Almost completely stopped. Every now and again Ill get a case stuck in the upper and a simple clear works it out. Usually when firing quickly.
8. what is your current impression of your purchase?
very positive, however I keep up with spikes to see what new adjustments to make. Interested in this one piece guide rod.
9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
no not at this point.
10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
Winchester and Federal.

davidk · #19 07-19-09, 01:45

I bought a Spike's dedicated upper. I found it to be ammo sensitive, but once I found what it likes (Federal 550 bulk) its been flawless

davidk · #20 07-19-09, 01:47

I bought a Spike's dedicated upper. I found it to be ammo sensitive, but once I found what it likes (Federal 550 bulk) its been flawless. After finding the right ammo, I put 500 rounds through it in an afternoon--twice actually. Great fun knowing ammo is so cheap