More torture tests wanted

hitman1012 · #1 07-22-09, 10:14

I would like to see some no BS assesments written in magazines. Kind of like the one Swat did about the LWRC rifles. But more are needed. I would like to see torture tests done on Colt, Noveske, BCM, Knights, and LMT. I may have missed one of the other top tier manufactures but you get the point. It would also be very interesting to see the same tests done on some of the others ones; like DPMS, RRA and Bushmaster, to see how they fair in comparission.

I know one test done on 1 sample is not a good represenation of how a particular brand will function but it can yield some good data for people. More so than, 50 different opinions. 50 guys will say RRA sucks and 50 others will say they are great. To each their own of course but some no BS assesment of each manuf. duarability, functioning etc.. would be nice to see in some guns rags than the typical 3 pages of talking about the accesories they put on the rifle and 1 or 2 paragraphs saying it shot well. While they only shot 200 rds out of it.

For example, I have a friend who has a Bushmaster as his beat around AR and it has about 5 thousand rds fired in so far with 0 parts breakage or malfunctions. Maybe he has a good one because years ago they were our issue rifles and the armorers hated them and said they constantly were replacing extractors etc... Personal preference will play the largets role in most peoples decision making process, but parts either break or they do not.
Sorry for the babling, I need to get my coffee! Just a thought and some observations. Maybe some writters here???

Skintop911 · #2 07-22-09, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitman1012

I would like to see some no BS assesments written in magazines.

I'd like to win the Powerball jackpot.

SWAT comes the closest to good, factual information. That's my only subscription these days. I don't remember the last time I opened others. There's little else worth reading, much less paying for.

Why bother anyway, when you can read the AARs from noteworthy trainers watching thousands of guns on live fire ranges? Or read the work of dedicated students, practitioners, industry folks, and contemplaters reporting their experiences?

hitman1012 · #3 07-22-09, 12:10

I agree with some of your thoughts. I was just reading some other posts on why do some people choose certain rifles. The overall consensus seems to be that people are not educated enough on the topic to make the correct decisions. I like many many people here do not need gun mags to help me make my decision in buying weapons. I can not tell you how many shooting courses I have been to and seen real world stuff like you mentioned to make my decisions. However, most people unless the are in the military or LE or are very avid shooters to learn from real life and others, do not take the time to read and research. Their fault... maybe yes, but, if the gun mags did a better job and followed the footsteps of the write up on the lWRC's many more people would benifit.

I personally do not read any of the magazines other than paging through em at Barnes and Nobel to pass the time. Probably wishful thinking on my part. It would just seem very obvious with as many industry professionals out there they could do a better job. Maybe their is not a market for this. I do not know, I am not a marketing guy. Just some observations and idea to help educate more gun buyers and shooters.

markm · #4 07-22-09, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skintop911

Why bother anyway, when you can read the AARs from noteworthy trainers watching thousands of guns on live fire ranges? Or read the work of dedicated students, practitioners, industry folks, and contemplaters reporting their experiences?

That's the way to go.

geminidglocker · #5 07-22-09, 12:23

Get a subscription to Gun Tests Magazine. They buy rifles off of dealer shelves instead of being given guns by the manufacturer. I find that they are the most informative when it comes down to real world testing. Think about it. If you are a manufacturer, giving out T&E models, are you not going to hand pick? The guns that Gun Tests buy are the guns that you would buy off the shelf. Also, they re-sell the guns that they evaluate, so if you want one that they have featured in a test, you can actually aquire the actual firearm used in the test. Check them out, I think you'll be satisfied. Subscription is cheap too.

pacifico · #6 07-22-09, 12:33

The following is only my opinion.

The use of what are commonly called "torture tests" to determine the reliability or quality of any given firearm is given far too much credit by most people. Remember that in most "torture tests" the sample size (number of rifles being tested) is one. Testing one firearm will not give an accurate result.

A better way to do a "torture test" would be to get ten, twenty, fifty, or a hundred rifles and then perform the test. Using fewer rifles could be considered a waste of time and ammunition.

As others have stated above, reading AARs and listening to people who run training classes is generally considered to be a consistent source of information on the subject.

RogerinTPA · #7 07-22-09, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skintop911

I'd like to win the Powerball jackpot.

SWAT comes the closest to good, factual information. That's my only subscription these days. I don't remember the last time I opened others. There's little else worth reading, much less paying for.

Why bother anyway, when you can read the AARs from noteworthy trainers watching thousands of guns on live fire ranges? Or read the work of dedicated students, practitioners, industry folks, and contemplaters reporting their experiences?

Totally agree. I'd rather get the opinion of trainers like former Unit members like LAV, Paul Howe, Kyle Lamb or some one like Pat Rogers, than 99% of the tripe in those gun rags. They are entertaining, but I read them with large buckets of salt.

RetreatHell · #8 07-22-09, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacifico

The following is only my opinion.

The use of what are commonly called "torture tests" to determine the reliability or quality of any given firearm is given far too much credit by most people. Remember that in most "torture tests" the sample size (number of rifles being tested) is one. Testing one firearm will not give an accurate result.

A better way to do a "torture test" would be to get ten, twenty, fifty, or a hundred rifles and then perform the test. Using fewer rifles could be considered a waste of time and ammunition.

As others have stated above, reading AARs and listening to people who run training classes is generally considered to be a consistent source of information on the subject.

Agreed. The best possible way to truly do a no BS "torture test" would be to give 1,000 of the rifles needing to be tested to Marines and Soldiers in Iraq. They'll figure out real quick of it's garbage or golden. However, it would be impractical (not to mention insanely risky and stupid) to do so, as they could quite possibly die in combat if the rifles didn't perform properly or as advertised.

The other best alternative would be to give those 1,000 rifles to stateside troops (Infantrymen only) in training. But that would be stupid and impractical as well, since they would not be using the rifles they would be training with in combat, and would basically be used for testing for someone else's gain.

buzz_knox · #9 07-22-09, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminidglocker

Get a subscription to Gun Tests Magazine. They buy rifles off of dealer shelves instead of being given guns by the manufacturer. I find that they are the most informative when it comes down to real world testing. Think about it. If you are a manufacturer, giving out T&E models, are you not going to hand pick? The guns that Gun Tests buy are the guns that you would buy off the shelf. Also, they re-sell the guns that they evaluate, so if you want one that they have featured in a test, you can actually aquire the actual firearm used in the test. Check them out, I think you'll be satisfied. Subscription is cheap too.

Gun Tests claims to buy all their test items, but that's not exactly correct. They borrowed the Rohrbaug they tested from the company, which sent the same weapon out later to other magazines.

Also, if you accept their free issue offer, Gun Tests has a "habit" of billing you even if you decline the subscription and threatening you with collections if you don't pay up. I got the free issue, told them no thank you, and they went down the threat road with me. They back down if you confront them, though.