AAR Carbine 1 in OKC

Josh-L · #1 09-28-09, 21:30

Magpul Dynamics Carbine 1 September 26/27th OKC

We've all read a thousand AAR's on here so I'll try and be brief and cover what I can remember that might be of interest.

We had this course at the Oklahoma City Gun Club in Arcadia, OK. We had a large range to work on being 100 yards long by about 75 yards wide. We cut the range in half though and only used one side which still gave us lots of room. We mainly worked from 50 yards and in.

Instructors were Costa of course and Mike Lamb was with him. Both were great and two of the best instructors I've ever trained with. They complimented each other well and another benefit of having Mike was he was a lefty so the two lefty shooters we had in the class got to see how he ran his gun.

Weather was good. High of 80 first day and 90 the second day with a little cloud cover and slight breeze. No rain! Our normal high allergy air quality was pretty low too.

We had 21 shooters in the class. It was the usual mix of LE, Mil, doctors, lawyers, IT guys and I forget what the others were. Some had attended training before and some had none.

Everyone was using an AR variant except one guy that had a XCR in 556. Optics were mainly Aimpoints and Eotechs. We had two or three guys use irons only and one Trijicon TR24 and a Leupold CQT. As far as I remember no optics went down.

We of course started the day off with introductions and a safety briefing. The Magpul guys' safety briefing and procedures are the most thorough of any class I've taken which I greatly appreciated. We had a small staging area setup in case of an accident and designated who the two primary medics would be and who's car we would load them up in if it was that serious.

Next we gathered on the range and went over admin loading and where your “workspace” is located. Costa then had me demonstrate the prone position and talked about the correct position and different ways to hold the rifle while in prone. After everyone said they understood we moved on to zeroing our rifles. I was amazed out how quickly this went as the last class I was at it seemed like it took an hour to get everyone zeroed. I knew at that point the Magpul guys were definitely good at what they did.

I won't go into specifics with all the drills we did but will say the class was well organized and I really appreciated how the instructors would demo everything before they asked us to do it. Magpuls motto of Reality, Consistency, Efficiency proved to be a winning combo. There was no “fluff” or anything added. Everything they taught had a purpose and was simple and they could explain why they did it that way instead of just saying do it. I will say that I enjoyed the BSA drill. I liked how you can adapt it to fit everyones ability. You start shooting only two rounds at a time but the better shooters were asked to shoot more. The new Magpul targets were very cool as well and had a lot of neat features on them. We covered admin loads, speed reloads, tac reloads, basic malfunction clearing, standing, kneeling, prone, urban prone and supine. We also covered 90 and 180 turns, moving forward and backward while shooting and pistol transistions. We were unable to get any type of barricades for the class so instead Chris and Mike setup a drill using barrels setup in a triangle fasion and we had to move and engage targets at each “station”. It made us use all the skills we had learned throughout the class and required lots of muzzle discipline. It was a good way to end the class.

We had a good number of guns go down for some reason. I don't know the story on all of them but my primary went down just before lunch on TD1. I was shooting a S&W M&P 5.45x39 upper that I had shaved the FSB and put a 12.0 DD rail on. I had about 1500 rounds on it without any issues before the class. I had been shooting the Wolf Military Classic ammo in it though and for this class could only find the regular Wolf. I started having stuck fired cases in the chamber and had to knock them out with a cleaning rod. I missed one evolution of drills and took her apart and cleaned it good but it started doing it again after another 150 rounds or so. So I put it up and went with my KISS 556 upper for the rest of the class. All I can attribute the problems to is the different ammo. I was bummed because I was used to having the longer rail system and vert grip on the 5.45x39 upper and had to switch to just having MOE handguards so it took me some time to adjust to holding it different and not having my arm out as far. I'm a little dude but my wife says I have monkey arms. When I got this upper it was during the ammo crunch. My original goal was to have two identical carbines, one in 5.45x39 and one in 556. That way I could carry my 556 rifle on duty and use the 5.45x39 in training with the much cheaper ammo. I didn't have enough cash to finish setting up my 556 upper though before the class. I learned a valuable lesson though as Costa pointed out. Sure I saved $100 on ammo but was it worth it? No. I could have been training instead of jacking with my gun. So I will have an upper for sale shortly... lol. Lesson learned is don't skimp on good ammo. The other problems I saw were mostly ammo related also. I saw one stuck case that had the rim ripped off in a Colt. It came out easy though and he was back up and running very quick. One gun was having ejection issues that were solved with switching buffers. The others I'm not sure what went wrong. No pistol issues that I can remember.

I will be changing a few things after this class. The first is my optic mount. I had always been a fan of absolute co witness spacers before this class but found the higher lower 1/3 co witness spacers would have worked better in some of the positions we shot from. It seemed like I would mount the weapon and have to dip my head a little more then I wanted to to find the dot. I will be getting a higher one now. Costa had the KAC micro mount and it was very nice and I think what I will go with. I used an Aimpoint H-1 in an ADM mount for the class. I also want to get a padded war belt setup. I used an extra nylon duty belt with bladetech pouches on it. It worked great but my hips were sore and bruised after two days of going prone. I also think I will try out a Magpul sling. I have always used single point slings and my BFG padded UDC sling was great but when we are standing around talking or loading mags or whatever it gets a little uncomfortable. Having the ability to quickly switch into a more comfortable two point mode would have been extremely nice.

Final thoughts are I will definitely try and get these guys back for Carbine 2 or a pistol class. Hell I'd even do Carbine 1 again it was that good.

Sorry no pics we were too busy shooting! I know there are a few other members on here that attended so I'm sure they can add something also.

LOKNLOD · #2 09-29-09, 00:56

Glad you got this started because I've been trying to formulate an AAR all day but didn't know where to begin.

First off, thanks to Josh-L for getting this class set up. Also to Mike C. who helped with the range logistics (don't think he posts over here).

Second, thanks to Magpul Dynamics for putting on a heck of a good class. As Josh said, Chris Costa and Mike Lamb were the instructors, and both were great. Everybody knows Costa of course but Mike brought a lot to the table, and they worked together well as a team. They take the training very seriously, but with enough levity to keep everyone interested and having fun. I think someone in the class suggested a recommended viewing list be sent out prior to the training, and that wouldn't be a bad idea -- Both can spit movie quotes like crazy. On a serious note -- their discussion on mindset was pretty damn good too.

This was my first carbine class and only second class overall. I didn't come into the class as the hardest shooter, and didn't leave as the hardest shooter, but I could definitely mark my improvement through the class. My score on the BSA the second morning was half of my score the previous day. The instructors aren't there to pat you on the back and make you feel special about it though, as we improved they pushed us harder. There was no fluff or ballistic masturbation going on with the drills they had us running. Chris and Mike did a great job of managing a wide range of skill levels all shooting on the same firing line.

I was the one running the TR24R. It's on a BCM middy upper with 12" rail and BCM bcg, on a CDD lower with G&R guts and a UBR. I used a padded VCAS and a mix of Pmags and Bravo-Co marked USGI mags with Federal XM193. Except for when we were confirming zero, I kept the TR24 at 1x the whole time. I didn't have any issues with the optic, it worked well up close for shooting with both eyes open just like a heavier, more expensive Aimpoint. Shooting from the supine position was a little more difficult, because of the eye relief, and it caused a bit of a "looking through a straw" effect. My rifle didn't die on me in the class, but I did have double feed at the end of day one, and then started having some more towards the end of day two. I noticed it was getting pretty dry and dirty, and nothing catastrophic or consistent was happening, so I think it may have just been the lube getting burnt off. It was starting to feel like a heavy pig by the end of the day!

I had hoped to have an SBR together for the class, and was a little bummed it didn't work out, but now I'm glad to have the experiences from the class before I get the rifle, because it's affected how I want it configured.

I wore a "war belt" setup for the class, no chest rig. I was able to keep 4 mags on me + 1 in the rifle, and didn't have any issues running out of ammo in the middle of an evolution. Really I had no issues with my gear to speak of -- very pleased with my belt rig. Putting some thought into what I wanted and why and making some range trips to try it ahead of time paid off there. I'm not saying it's the best setup for anyone else, but it worked well for me. ICE outer belt, BFG inner belt, double FB Glock mag pouch, single FB rifle mag pouch (default reload), BFG ten-speed, CSM dump, Safariland holster modded for hi-ride.

BAD lever: I was waiting for this class to decide about the bad lever, hoping to see/use one before putting one one my rifle. After day one and the malfunction-clearing session, I was sold. I snagged one and I put it on my rifle for day two, and it was a boon for locking the bolt back. It'll take some practice to get it involved in my reloads, but contrary to many interweb threads, it didn't cause male pattern baldness, erectile dysfunction, or spontaneous NDs.

Overall, a great class and great experience. I hope to train with MD again. Love to see them come back to OKC for a pistol class...

Nick710 · #3 09-29-09, 08:21

Great reports from both you guys. Thanks Josh and Mike for putting this on. I would start planning for II soon.

I'll not add much, but I was impressed with the quality of shooters in this course. Everyone (except that one guy) was pretty switched on and safe. Didn't have any worries about safety.

I've taken over a dozen carbine courses from the best trainers out there. I'll rank Chris and Mike right up there with the best. They're technique on holding the carbine differs a little from current doctrine, "but I see the truth in it" Chris and Mike demoed every drill and I was impressed with their shooting skills.

If you get a chance to train with these guys, you need to jump on it. I look foward to Carbine II.

Solidius · #4 10-01-09, 11:42

Mini AAR

Gun:
JTAC built upper w/ DD 12in lite rail, White Oak 14.5 in barrel 1in7 twist(perm vortex), BCM Bolt and carrier . Ran XTMs and a TD stubby vert grip.

Double Star Lower w/ CMT LPK, Magpul ASAP, BAD, MIAD, MS2 sling, and CTR.

Ran 500 Wolf polymer/ 500 PMC Bronze/ and 720 UMC Bulk Pack

Pistol M&P 9mm stock, and ran Blazer and WWB 9mm.

My first course, first time on a public range other that my CCW class. Chris and Mike ran a tight and safe ship. They both helped me make adjustments to my posture, stance, grip and equipment locations. I ran a Blackwater chest rig the first day, and ran slick day 2 with only my two bladetech belt mag puches(feeding them from cargo pockets). I felt like I learned in two days what would normally take two weeks. I was defiantly out of my comfort zone for the majority of the course, heck it wasn't till half way through the second day that I noticed familiar "Sprong" of the buffer spring as the weapon cycled. Only one ammo related malfunction, and at least 2 user induced.

Now just to keep building on what I learned and try to make it to the next rung. Big thanks to Magpul, Josh for setting things up, and to the guys at the class, it was an honor to train with you guys.

LOKNLOD · #5 10-01-09, 12:19

Solidius,
Thanks for posting -- trying to put a face/name with you. Must have been at the other end of the line!

If you're a local, check out our Okie group here on M4C.

Solidius · #6 10-01-09, 13:56

Jodie P.

I'll message you a link to a couple of photos I got.

costa · #7 10-01-09, 15:53

Did you crop me out, I want our photo together back.

c

Ed L. · #8 10-01-09, 16:45

Here are some pictures. First we have Mr. Brown, the happiest gun guy in town.

Solidius · #9 10-01-09, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by costa

Did you crop me out, I want our photo together back.

c

I just thought they might get us confused

Josh-L · #10 10-01-09, 18:51

Thanks for the pics Ed.

BWW · #11 10-01-09, 19:35

Josh L thanks for hosting, okc gun club is a great place to shoot. ed L cool pics you rock.This was my first class also, dont know if I made it to the first rung but, at least I know where its at now.Dont have other classes to compare but felt like I gained a tremedous amount in a short time.IMHO chris and mike from magpul are the shiznit.Mike B. thanks for the laughs during the breaks.Also would somebody let Lamb know I bought a tomahawk as soon as I got home.LOL

Josh-L · #12 10-01-09, 22:31

Ha! I forgot about the tomahawk.

Maybe we can bring them back next year for Dynamic Tomahawk 1?

I seriously want to try and do a pistol class next year. Gun club will have a flat $25 fee though. We got grandfathered in for this one.

LOKNLOD · #13 10-02-09, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh-L

Ha! I forgot about the tomahawk.

Maybe we can bring them back next year for Dynamic Tomahawk 1?

I seriously want to try and do a pistol class next year. Gun club will have a flat $25 fee though. We got grandfathered in for this one.

I'm in! Even if the club does wanna gig me for a fee.

dwkennedy · #14 10-02-09, 00:45

I would jump at the chance to do another class with Magpul Dynamics. I definitely came away a better shooter from this class.

Solidius · #15 10-02-09, 12:09

[quote=Ed L.;464774]Here are some pictures. First we have Mr. Brown, the happiest gun guy in town.
Snip..

/QUOTE]

Great pics Ed, do let us know when the article will show up in SWAT.

Jakus · #16 10-02-09, 12:56

Like everyone else, I would like to thank Chris & Mike from Magpul Dynamics for putting on a great class, as well and Josh and Mike for hosting.

I just wanted to point out a few of the things that worked for me, and a few that didn't.

I ran a left handed Stag 16", Larue 12" rail, Aimpoint T1, Magpul ASAP & MS2 sling. I also ran this with a Norgon Ambi Mag catch and a ACLM ambi charging handle. I only had one non-induced malfunction towards the end of day two.

What worked

The BSA Drill - Even though my score improved by only one point from day 1 to day 2, Costa had several of us increase our round count the second day. While I still have a lot to learn as a shooter, when I counted up my score on day two taking extra shots it really drilled home the theme of "pushing to your failure point".

Magpul MS2 Sling - I was really glad to have the simplicity of shooting a single point sling, but still be able to wear the rifle in the two point configuration for comfort.

ALCM Charging Handle - This was my first time using this ambi charging handle, and I don't know how it will stand the test of time, but it was definitely and advantage shooting lefty.

What didn't

Rifle Mag positioning - I shoot cross dominant (Rifle left / Pistol right). Or as Mike called it "Half a Lefty". I had setup my load bearing belt with pistol mags on the left and 2 rifle mags on my right with a space between to draw my pistol. When I test fit it before the class it seemed like enough room to get a clean draw, but it wasn't really practical. I ended up removing the rifle mag mounted at 4:30 and simply doing my first speed reload from the pouch at 1:30 then going to my chest rig.

Drop Leg Holster - I think this my just be a fine tuning thing, but I had a big problem getting my 6004 Safariland to stay where I wanted it. I have cut down the 6004 from 2 straps to one, and tried to run it as high as possible. Once we started moving and shooting and running, the leg strap kept getting loose and sliding down my leg allowing the entire holster to flop around a little bit.

All in all it was a great weekend. Lots of excellent training, and a really good group of shooters.

I also hope to take additional courses from Magpul Dynamics, and I have to say that a level one pistol class would be at the top of my list. Heck I might even be able to get my better half to sign up for that one.

Ed L. · #17 10-02-09, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solidius

Great pics Ed, do let us know when the article will show up in SWAT.

No idea. First I have to finish the article, then submit it.

Solidius · #18 10-04-09, 21:30

Thanks Ed!