Unnecessarily controversial post. 5 most important auto-loaders of the past 100 years

Greg Bell · #1 10-02-09, 10:28

1. 1911. The measure of all handguns.

2. Luger. I believe this was the first serious autoloader to be military issue. And probably the coolest gun of all time.

3. Walther ppk/P38. Inspired the majority of handguns in service today. If that is good or not is debatable.

4.BHP. The first viable high-capacity handgun. This and #3 combined to make the blueprint for most serious combat handguns.

5. Glock 17. Although little about it was really new (almost everything revolutionary about it was taken from the HK Vp70z) this gun came from nowhere to dominate the police handgun market. Its combination of "so easy a caveman can do it" maintenance and simple (some say too simple) operation has basically made every gun since its introduction little more than a footnote.

Littlelebowski · #2 10-02-09, 10:30

No controversy here. My picks as well ,Greg.

MarshallDodge · #3 10-02-09, 10:41

I can live with those picks.

I believe that Glock revolutionized the handgun manufacturing process. While I have never been to the factory, I think they must have got a good system going to turn out a consistently high quality product for a good price.

There are others that have tried, and failed, at making a Glock.

decodeddiesel · #4 10-02-09, 10:43

Good post.

I would mention the CZ-75B for it's influence on Sig and Beretta (and many others') designs, however it can be directly traced to a combination of 3 and 4, therefore it could be redundant.

Mark71 · #5 10-02-09, 12:09

Good picks Greg.

JonInWA · #6 10-02-09, 12:18

I think that you've nicely nailed it, Greg.

Best, Jon

RogerinTPA · #7 10-02-09, 12:53

Agree on your picks Greg. Another nod to the CZ-75B.

TY44934 · #8 10-02-09, 13:08

#4 should either be (or include) the 75. Just like the 1911, the 75 is widely copied accross the globe. The CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world.

I own early BHP/P35/Inglis barrels that are an exact fit into the slide of the 75b (although the lugs are completely different & don't engage the frame in the same way, plus the frame rails are reversed).

Point is: when the 75 was invented in 1975, it's slide and barrel heavily borrowed from the BHP.

75s are made everywhere including the USA: the Bren10 + Valtor are 75s, and US gunmakers sell 75s including the Armalite AR24, Springfield Armory P9 (dicontinued) and Colt Z40 (discontinued).

Furthermore, 75s are made in China (Norinco 75) Switzerland (Sphynx) Israel (Jericho 941) Italy (tanfoglio) Turkey (Huglu) Brazil (Imbel) and about a dozen other countries.

In terms of numbers and influence, the 75 deserves a spot.

ry43 · #9 10-02-09, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by TY44934

#4 should either be (or include) the 75. Just like the 1911, the 75 is widely copied accross the globe. The CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world.

As much as I like CZ's, has there been any proof of this claim?

Gunzilla · #10 10-02-09, 15:11

Personally, I would put the H&K P7 at number 3 or 4. Can't argue with number 1 or number 2.

The squeeze cocker grip makes this a far safer weapon to carry with one in the chamber than anything out there, and with no safety to operate it's the fastest to bring to bear.

It's also safe because if you're P7 is ever in control of the bad guy few, if any, will know how to shoot you with it. This is why many police forces issued this back in the 80s, the only drawback to this pistol was it's cost....that's why H&K stopped making it and made the USP. H&K had to compete in a marketplace and the P7 was taking a beating because of it's cost.

Take-down and assemble is much faster than anything else as well.

markm · #11 10-02-09, 15:27

What? No Keltec or Ruger LCRs on the list?

Hunter Rose · #12 10-02-09, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunzilla

Personally, I would put the H&K P7 at number 3 or 4. Can't argue with number 1 or number 2.

As much as I love HK and the P7, the list is for most important auto-loaders and not most innovative. All 5 in Greg Bell's list were fielded in much larger numbers than the P7, not to mention they affected pistol development then and for the future. The P7s influence really only lasted for 20-30 years, and it was never as widespead as the other picks.

And, if you think about, pistol technology is really moving away from the finely crafted & intricately complicated design of the P7.

Awesome pistol though.

Hunter Rose · #13 10-02-09, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

What? No Keltec or Ruger LCRs on the list?

I vote for Hi-Points!

PRGGodfather · #14 10-02-09, 16:40

I think Greg hit the nail on the head, as there are a lot of firsts on this one:

* 1911 to be sure -- no other designs have "venerable" in the description, and for influencing designs and shooters alike.

* The 1908 Luger for its influence resulting in the nearly worldwide adoption of the 9mm Luger as an effective duty round, influencing countless other pistol designs.

* The Walther PP / P38 as the first double-action semi-automatic pistols influencing an entire generation of DA/SA pistols.

* The P35 / AKA High Power as the first design using the double-stacked high-capacity magazine, and certainly the first "Wondernine."

* The G17 for breaking the mold as the first real polymer framed pistol, influencing countless others.

If imitation is greatest form of flattery, these designs are truly important -- for the numbers they influenced. 80% were created in the first half of the 20th century -- the Glock being the newcomer in the latter half...

Ian111 · #15 10-02-09, 19:16

Hard to argue with that list.

As far as CZ75 I could see it in the Top 10 but not in the Top 5.

LanceOregon · #16 10-02-09, 20:04

The Walther PP was the first double action/single action semiautomatic, so it clearly deserves to be on the list. The PPK came later, and was only a variant of it. The PP was the original gun. The P38 is a totally different design, and does not deserve to be in the top 5.

The Luger also does not deserve to be on your list, as it was patented 111 years ago, went into commercial production 109 years ago, and was adopted by German's military 105 years ago. So it easily exceeds your 100 year limitation.

If one removes your 100 year limitation, then the BHP should definitely be replaced on your list with the Mauser C96, as it was the first truly successful semiautomatic pistol.

--

TY44934 · #17 10-02-09, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ry43

As much as I like CZ's, has there been any proof of this claim?

Here you go: http://www.cz-usa.com

JonInWA · #18 10-02-09, 20:39

Unfortuately, that link is hardly proof per se-it's merely a link to what essentially is an advertising blurb by CZ itself, and is non-specific beyond the quite generalized categories. I'd be very curious as to which militaries actually utilize the CZ-75.

Best, Jon

crusader377 · #19 10-02-09, 20:53

Great list! Agree with every one of them.

Although I think the CZ-75 is a great handgun, I really don't think it is as significant in overall pistol development as the five on the list. It would definitely make it on the top 10 however.

decodeddiesel · #20 10-02-09, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInWA

Unfortuately, that link is hardly proof per se-it's merely a link to what essentially is an advertising blurb by CZ itself, and is non-specific beyond the quite generalized categories. I'd be very curious as to which militaries actually utilize the CZ-75.

Best, Jon

The Czech Army