The Taliban in their own words

rickrock305 · #1 10-02-09, 21:14

Thought this was pretty interesting.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/216235/page/1

Irish · #2 10-02-09, 21:40

A small piece of advice that will help others is to put the text in your post like this:

Quote:

During wars and after them, the real voice of the enemy is rarely heard. Propaganda is plentiful, as are prideful boasts—and the Taliban have certainly been quick studies at the modern art of information warfare. But the fears and ambitions of ordinary fighters are too often buried under statistics and theories propounded from thousands of miles away. That's been even more true in Iraq and Afghanistan, where reporters who might accurately convey the other side's perspective are at risk of being kidnapped or killed for their efforts.

After eight long years of war in Afghanistan, however, America and its allies can ill afford not to understand who the enemy is and why they fight. To put together this remarkable oral history, told through the words of the Taliban themselves, NEWSWEEK turned to contributing correspondent Sami Yousafzai, who has been covering the conflict for the magazine since 2001. Over that time he has developed and maintained contact with dozens of Afghan insurgents, including the six whose stories are told here.

Working with NEWSWEEK's Ron Moreau, Yousafzai spent more than a month crisscrossing Afghanistan and Pakistan to meet these sources. He has known them all for some time, and in the past their information has generally proved reliable. Their accounts may sometimes be self-serving—most Afghan civilians recall the Taliban regime far less fondly, for one thing—but the facts are consistent with what Yousafzai knows about the men from earlier reporting. While it's impossible to confirm the credibility of everything they say, their stories offer a rare chance to understand how the insurgents see this war, from the collapse of the Taliban, through their revival and, now, their budding ascendancy.

(Click here to see a map of the area, and click on the names to see bios of the people referenced in this story)

Chapter One: The Fall

'The bombs cut down our men like a reaper harvesting wheat. it felt like judgment day.'
—Maulvi Abdul Rehman Akhundzada

HAQQANI: Two days before the September 11 attacks on America, we were all celebrating the death of [Northern Alliance commanderAhmed Shah] Masood, [who was assassinated by Qaeda agents posing as television reporters]. His forces were already on the verge of defeat, so his death all but assured us of total victory in Afghanistan. But the September 11 attacks turned our cheer into deep concern. We gave those camels [a derogatory Afghan term for Arabs] free run of our country, and they brought us face to face with disaster. We knew the Americans would attack us in revenge.

Realizing the danger, I immediately sent my wife and children to Pakistan. The entire government started to fall apart. I never thought the Taliban would collapse so quickly and cruelly under U.S. bombs. Everyone began trying to save themselves and their families. When the bombing began, I changed out of my usual white mullah's garb, put on an old brown shalwar kameez, and headed for Pakistan. I crossed the mountains on foot, and at the top I turned around and said: "God bless you, Afghanistan. I'll never come back to you under our Islamic regime."

AKHUNDZADA: When the bombing started, I was commanding some 400 fighters on the front lines near Mazar-e Sharif. The bombs cut down our men like a reaper harvesting wheat. Bodies were dismembered. Dazed fighters were bleeding from the ears and nose from the bombs' concussions. We couldn't bury the dead. Our reinforcements died in their trenches.

I couldn't bring myself to surrender, so I retreated with a few of my men in the confusion. Everything was against us. The highway south to Kabul through the Salang Tunnel was blocked. We walked four days in the deep snow without food or water. Kids started shooting at us from the hilltops, hunting us like wild animals.

By the fifth day I could barely walk. I hid my weapon and walked to a village, saying I was a lost traveler and asking for food. The villagers fed me, but I had lost touch with my comrades. I walked on until a minibus came along; I aimed my gun at the driver and forced him to stop. The van was full of Taliban. They said they had no room for me, but I threatened to shoot out their tires unless they took me. I had to lie on the floor with their feet on my body. It was uncomfortable, but I was warm for the first time in days.

Follow link to read last 6 pages.

Safetyhit · #3 10-02-09, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickrock305

Thought this was pretty interesting.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/216235/page/1

Now we are spreading sympathetic Tailban propaganda spewed in the anti-American Newsweek? You somehow have an inexplicably long leash around here, but this really stretches it and then some.

There is little to no value to this information via Newsweek's left sided slant 8 years after 9/11 and 30 years since we worked with the animals against the Russians.

In my very humble opinion.

montanadave · #4 10-02-09, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

Now we are spreading sympathetic Tailban propaganda spewed in the anti-American Newsweek? You somehow have an inexplicably long leash around here, but this really stretches it and then some.

In my very humble opinion.

Sorry, but I don't see this as Taliban propaganda. I see it as an opportunity to understand the mindset and motivation of our enemy. Perhaps had our leadership spent a little more time figuring out who the players are and why they're fighting before charging into this quagmire, we might have had more success in defining and accomplishing the mission.

And, by the way, I hope you appreciate the irony of characterizing your opinion as "very humble."

rickrock305 · #5 10-02-09, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

Now we are spreading sympathetic Tailban propaganda spewed in the anti-American Newsweek? You somehow have an inexplicably long leash around here, but this really stretches it and then some.

In my very humble opinion.

ever heard the phrase "know thy enemy"?

Safetyhit · #6 10-03-09, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickrock305

ever heard the phrase "know thy enemy"?

We already know thy enemy, slick.

We don't need sympathetic updates from the left trying to find ways to make us feel bad for them.

rickrock305 · #7 10-03-09, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

We already know thy enemy, slick.

apparently not so well. seems you didn't bother to read the article before you decided to comment on it.

Safetyhit · #8 10-03-09, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanadave

Sorry, but I don't see this as Taliban propaganda. I see it as an opportunity to understand the mindset and motivation of our enemy.

This was accomplished long ago. Where have you been?

You two are what keep many in the AR discussion forums only. Then again I wouldn't waste my time here either if I saw crap like this often enough.

armakraut · #9 10-03-09, 04:31

That is an unusually interesting newsweek article. A lot of those taliban types reminded me a bit of the old balkan term, "weekend chetnik." Not exactly what you'd call core fanatics. The sources are probably very genuine, but the article is "crafted" in a way to seem like the current fighting stems from lack of jobs, or corruption. I'm sure corruption is somewhat of a big deal, it always* is in that part of the world, but in Swat most of the fighting was just out and out piracy, tribal types trying to steal land, vehicles, etc. Then you've got the drug trade, which really wasn't mentioned.

Pointing firearms at people is dangerous business, so part-time employed taliban or not, they get what they get if they want to make a living that way.

* unless you're on the take, in which case it's way cool, and you get to buy all sorts of shiny junk

montanadave · #10 10-03-09, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

You two are what keep many in the AR discussion forums only. Then again I wouldn't waste my time here either if I saw crap like this often enough.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before, Safetyhit. You are always quick to inform anyone with an opinion not totally congruent with your own of how well informed and prescient you are and how woefully ignorant the rest of us are. Your hubris is cloying.

Why don't you do us all a big favor and just condense the M4C zeitgeist for those of us who, in your always "very humble" opinion, are out of step? Perhaps you should school us in how to think, what to think, who to vote for, etc. I, for one, am dying to be indoctrinated by one so worldly and wise as yourself.

God forbid I should be guilty of a thoughtcrime!

thopkins22 · #11 10-03-09, 09:52

The emotional responses above notwithstanding, it was an interesting article.

Quote:

Another night I was in a hotel in Kabul on a mission to smuggle remote devices and explosives. Afghan police and intelligence were checking all the travelers staying in the hotel. My fellow mujahedin and I hid the bags containing the remotes in the bathroom. The police checked our luggage and pockets. But God blinded their eyes to the bathroom. If they had found the devices I would have ended up in jail for life. All these close calls strengthened my faith and my commitment to the jihad.

Quote:

Two or three years ago, U.S. soldiers in the region acted as if they were on holiday. They were taking videos and photos of themselves and walking in the mountains for fun. They were playing games in the open. Those days are over. Now they are forced to keep their fingers on their triggers 24 hours a day.

Yeah, really sounds like they're trying to make it sound like we are bombing indiscriminately and killing angels.

CarlosDJackal · #12 10-03-09, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

We already know thy enemy, slick.

We don't need sympathetic updates from the left trying to find ways to make us feel bad for them.

And this is why we are not doing as well as we should be in A-stan. Anyone who claims that they know their enemy is either delusional or suicidal. This is a lesson we as Americans have not lerned that was documented by Sun Tzu thousands of years ago.

Let the liberal press obtain and publish more interviews with those we are fighting. This gives us even more insight (and intelligence) from which we can plan our counterinsurgecy.

standsalone · #13 10-03-09, 11:07

I read the article when it first came out , before it became a hot button issue here...
at first I was grumpy about the slant , but I found a lot if useful info in the actual article... granted some of the stuff those dirt bags are whining about will fuel liberals and hippies to continue shenanigans but as a training tool a lot can be discerned from what the people said. one of the 'T"'s in METT-TC stands for enemy , and one of the things you always want to know is the disposition of the enemy. The enemy's morale is key in the fight.
in my humble opinion as a soldier

RogerinTPA · #14 10-03-09, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosDJackal

And this is why we are not doing as well as we should be in A-stan. Anyone who claims that they know their enemy is either delusional or suicidal. This is a lesson we as Americans have not lerned that was documented by Sun Tzu thousands of years ago.

Let the liberal press obtain and publish more interviews with those we are fighting. This gives us even more insight (and intelligence) from which we can plan our counterinsurgecy.

Well said. It is always interesting to see war from the enemy's perspective. Any intelligence that can be obtained should be exploited to the maximum effect. In the intelligence community, all media (news papers, magazines, internet ramblings, radio, etc...) is considered "open source" data, to augment "closed source" collection info. That said, I have no sympathy for the enemy, none what so ever. If anything, that open source article should boost moral on our side as to the havoc our forces have heaped on them. The more depressing, bad news reported on their side, the better we know what effect we are having on their morale, and to gauge their ability to continue their insurgency.

Safetyhit · #15 10-03-09, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanadave

Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before, Safetyhit. You are always quick to inform anyone with an opinion not totally congruent with your own of how well informed and prescient you are and how woefully ignorant the rest of us are. Your hubris is cloying.

As far as you personal comments directed at me, I will show you what a monster I am by ignoring them.

Sorry if I can't see the positive aspect of that particular OP posting a sympathetic Newsweek article to the Taliban. He has a track record, and much of my recent criticisms have been directed at him. While I can be honestly blunt, I have not been the only one here to do so, so no need to portray me as such.

I don't care how informative it may be in some respects, RR is making one of his statements. But this time he is utilizing our enemy, the one responsible for countless civilian deaths both here and abroad to do so.

Maybe if someone like Carlos posted the article the impact would be a bit less disturbing, but coming from RR it has a real stink to it.

Outlander Systems · #16 10-03-09, 11:34

If this was a more gentlemanly age, SafetyHit and RickRock would have already had a duel.

I got $20 on SH.

montanadave · #17 10-03-09, 13:57

The U.S. Army commissioned military historian Douglas R. Cubbison of the Army's Combat Studies Institute to investigate an action in Wanat, Afghanistan in July of 2008 which cost the lives of nine American servicemen. Portions of that report were published yesterday by the New York Times.

(http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/03/wo...UgchK0IXwlSmRw).

One of Cubbison's criticisms was the “absence of cultural awareness and understanding of the specific tribal and governance situation” and the emphasis on combat operations over the development of the local economy and other civil affairs, a reversal of the practices of the unit that had just left the area.

The journal Foreign Policy also has an article on the battle at Wanat in which the author states:

"The core problem, Cubbison writes, is that the battle resulted from "a failure of COIN [counterinsurgency] manifested in a major combat action that although a marked tactical victory, became an operational and strategic defeat." Indeed, the report concludes that the unit's attempts at counterinsurgency were so badly implemented that they "were more likely to foster hostility than reciprocity from the local population."

That finding on the failure to properly carry out a counterinsurgency campaign is to my mind the most significant part of the Cubbison report. He flatly concludes that, in sharp contrast to their predecessors from the 10th Mountain Division, the commanders in the Wanat area mishandled their COIN campaign, both in the long term, over several months, and in the days preceding the Wanat fight. In sum, they alienated the population, failing to protect it and treating it as hostile. They then compounded the problem by instituting a "clear, hold and build" COIN operation without sufficient troops to clear Wanat, let alone hold it. "A single platoon in the open field near the bazaar lacked the capability of holding Wanat," the report finds."

Here's the link to the Foreign Policy article for those wishing to read it in its entirety:

http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/category/topic/wanat

Lest anyone think that Cubbison's report is a hatchet job, the author concludes by stating:

"Cubbison also makes the important point that the platoon was saved from being overrun mainly by its own discipline and professional competence. They did just about everything they could do to establish the defenses of their outpost, despite being dehydrated from a lack of potable water. They were attacked just as they were doing a pre-dawn "stand to," in which every soldier, despite being exhausted from building walls and digging holes, was awake and fully armed and armored and surveilling his assigned sector of fire. As sergeants fell during the fight, junior soldiers were able to step into their shoes. He also marvels at the skill and courage of medical evacuation pilots and crews who picked up our wounded American and Afghan soldiers even as Apache helicopters were conducting gun runs 30 meters from the landing zone. Of the 20 evacuees, not one died of his wounds.

The report also is in awe of the bravery and persistence of the 42 soldiers and 3 Marines who fought at Wanat, as I am. I knew that some continued to fight after being hit several times. But I didn't know that one continued to pass ammunition even when he was mortally wounded."

I, for one, believe that any additional insight we can glean from whatever source about
the enemy our soldiers are engaging in Afghanistan deserves scrutiny if there is the slightest chance it can help formulate and implement a successful strategy to accomplish the mission and hasten the safe return home of our troops.

FromMyColdDeadHand · #18 10-03-09, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanadave

.... Of the 20 evacuees, not one died of his wounds.

The report also is in awe of the bravery and persistence of the 42 soldiers and 3 Marines who fought at Wanat, as I am. I knew that some continued to fight after being hit several times. "

...

I wonder if the Jihadis on their BB (scrawlings on the cave wall) argue back and forth over 5.45 vs 7.62 since obviously the new rounds are not effective enough.

Newsweek is dead to me. It is just a matter of time before the public takes it fishing on a cold winter day.

rickrock305 · #19 10-03-09, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

Sorry if I can't see the positive aspect of that particular OP posting a sympathetic Newsweek article to the Taliban. He has a track record, and much of my recent criticisms have been directed at him. While I can be honestly blunt, I have not been the only one here to do so, so no need to portray me as such.

you should at least see what you're criticizing me for before you jump to conclusions just because its me who posted it. maybe read the article before you start to criticize?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

I don't care how informative it may be in some respects, RR is making one of his statements. But this time he is utilizing our enemy, the one responsible for countless civilian deaths both here and abroad to do so.

of course you don't care what it actually says, its just another opportunity to attack me.

i didn't make any statement, other than i thought it was an interesting read. apparently everyone but you thought the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetyhit

Maybe if someone like Carlos posted the article the impact would be a bit less disturbing, but coming from RR it has a real stink to it.

lmao wow, you're like a little kid. just write it off as nonsense just because i posted it. truly laughable.

if you weren't such a dick i'd almost feel sorry for you.

Safetyhit · #20 10-03-09, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickrock305

you should at least see what you're criticizing me for before you jump to conclusions just because its me who posted it. maybe read the article before you start to criticize?

I did read the article, and then I stated my opinion of not just the article, but of your motive for posting it. Why do you seem to insist otherwise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickrock305

if you weren't such a dick i'd almost feel sorry for you.

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment of the highest order.