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  #1  
Unread 12-24-09, 02:58
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Question Trying to make a decision about an 18" SPR barrel

I was at the range the other day chronoing some more loads and calculating dope for my 16" Recce build and I was thinking about my other 16" that really doesn't get much range time. I have been thinking about re-barreling it, as I have two that have 16" barrels and are identical otherwise, one is a Daniel Defense complete upper that has a Lothar Walther Stainless LW50 .223 Wylde chamber 7" twist and a matched bolt, and the other has a Colt HBAR 5.56NATO chamber and 9" twist, the barrel came from a Colt 6721.

Daniel Defense 16" Recce build


Colt HBAR that I want to put an 18" barrel in


So if I am looking to re-barrel the Colt with an 18" SPR type barrel like Noveske's, White Oak's, Rainier Arm's (Shilen) UltraMatch, JP Enterprises Supermatch or some other stainless match type 18"

I was wondering if anyone has info or opinions on the various options like Noveske’s Match Mod 0 chamber vs. .223 Wylde chamber and intermediate length gas system vs. mid-length gas and a 8" vs. a 7" twist. I will probably top it with a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T M3 Illuminated Scope when the budget allows. I will be keeping the Daniel Defense 12.0 Lite rail and it will be used for rifle matches and 3 gun competitions, I'm not really looking for a military SPR clone.

So any thoughts on the chamber, the twist rate, muzzle device etc would be appreciated, and may help anyone else looking to dump 77gr happy pills into targets out to 800 meters.

Anyone want a Colt 16" HBAR barrel let me know...

Cameron
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Last edited by Cameron; 12-24-09 at 04:11
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  #2  
Unread 12-24-09, 08:36
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Take a good look at the BCM 1x8 18" SPR SS410 barrel.
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  #3  
Unread 12-24-09, 08:53
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I don't have any other 18" barrels to compare to, but I am very happy with my Noveske 18" intermediate gas barrel. Where-ever the reticle sits the bullet goes, and it shoots so soft I can see every impact. I am using a PWS DNTC comp, and while there are "better" comps out there, I am happy with it as well for my application of the gun.
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Last edited by Failure2Stop; 12-24-09 at 09:14
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  #4  
Unread 12-24-09, 09:25
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Kreiger also makes a nice SPR barrel 1/7.7 twist.
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  #5  
Unread 12-24-09, 11:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulinski View Post
Kreiger also makes a nice SPR barrel 1/7.7 twist.
My example of the Kreiger is splendid.
One of the finest barrels I've ever owned, no POI shift, very accurate.
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  #6  
Unread 12-27-09, 21:14
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Cameron,


Just some food for thought:


Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy. Depending on ammo, etc. the difference between a 16" barrel and a 20" barrel is only around 100 feet per second.

Velocity with 3 different barrel lengths using 5.56 M193 55 grain ball

14.5" barrel - 3064 feet per second
16" barrel - 3132 feet per second
20" barrel - 3259 feet per second

With this ammo, chrome lined barrels, the velocity gained from a 16" barrel to a 20" barrel is 127 feet per second......for each inch of extra barrel you are gaining 31.75 feet per second in velocity. The velocity gain isn't as great as many may have thought.


18"
-You can use a rifle length gas system on a 18" barrel (slightly smoother than a mid-length gas system). Some companies use an intermediate gas system (between a mid and rifle length gas system on 18" barrels)

-Slight velocity gain (approximately 50 - 75 feet per second - depending on barrel, ammo, etc.) at the cost of added length and added weight (on most stainless barrels a 18" barrel will weigh 6 to 8 ounces more than the exact same 16" barrel)


16"
-Shorter, lighter, more compact, thus making it a little easier to shoot from unconventional shooting positions.

-Most will use the mid-length

-Slight loss in velocity



When talking about the different gas systems on a 18" barrel, think about the distance from the gas hole to the end of the barrel. The longer that the bullet is in the barrel after the bullet passes the gas hole, the more gas that is getting pushed back through the gas tube. The end result is a sharper recoil impulse.

This is why on a 16" barrel, a mid-length gas system is slightly smoother than a carbine gas system.

A mid-length gas system on a 18" barrel is much like a carbine gas system on a 16" barrel, the recoil impulse is going to be sharper due to the longer dwell time. The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 18" barrel with mid-length gas system is approximatley 9.5". The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 16" barrel with carbine-length gas system is approximatley 9.5".

A intermediate gas system on a 18" barrel is simular to a mid-length gas system on a 16" barrel. The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 18" barrel with intermediate-length gas system is approximatley 7.5". The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 16" barrel with mid-length gas system is approximatley 7.5"

The rifle length gas system on the 18" barrel will be the softest shooting of the 3 gas systems listed. You will find that most run and gun rifle competitors and 3 gunners prefer the rifle length gas system on 18" barrels because of it's softer recoil impulse which aids in faster follow up shots.




Give me a day or two and I'll post an article that has the weight of several stainless match 16" and 18" barrel weights, if you're intrested in them.


As gotM4 already pointed out, take a hard look at the BCM SS410 stainless barrels (they come in 18" rifle length gas system and 16" mid-length gas system and are 1/8" twist). I'm currently running a BCM 16" SS410 on my run and gun carbine.

You had mentioned White Oak Armament SPR profile 18" barrel. I used one on a competition gun several years ago. Great barrel, but it was on the heavy side (for my preferences, based on my body size and shooting style) and went back to a 16" barrel: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....ighlight=White

Some good info on 1/7" vs. 1/8" twist rates can be found here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29302



As Failure to Stop already pointed out, the PWS is an excellent comp. There are better comps on the market, but they come at the cost of added length, added noise, added blast, etc. I've been running the PWS FSC556 and DNTC comps on my work and competition gun for the last couple years. The FSC556, DNTC, and Todd's Tiny One all have identical blast chambers and have identical performance in reference to reducing muzzle flip. Here are a couple articles on the PWS DNTC and Todd's Tiny One:


03designgroup | Primary Weapons System Todd's Tiny One Compensator


03designgroup | Primary Weapons System (PWS) Custom DNTC Compensator

The Surefire 556k muzzle brake is an excellent brake and does a slightly better job at reducing muzzle flip. Down side is that it adds approximatley 2.25" to the overall length of the barrel and it's noticeablly louder than the PWS comps. I use the Surefire 556k on guns that I use my 556k suppressor on.



You mentioned using the the rifle matches and 3 gun competitions and using the Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T M3 Illuminated Scope. I like this scope on a bolt gun, but I have found this scope is long, heavy, and cumbersome on an AR that is used for run and gun competition. If you are wanting to get up around 10x you may want to consider a shorter and lower profile optic like the Night Force 2.5 - 10x, Leupold MKIV 2.5 - 8x (same scope that edwin907 has on his rifle .... Leupold makes the same scope in a 3-9x, I would not recommend this scope due to it's shorter eye relief), or simular optics.




Hope this helps



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Last edited by USMC03; 12-27-09 at 21:14
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  #7  
Unread 12-27-09, 21:45
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this gun has a 17" barrel (and 3" comp) with rifle gas. hard for me to compare the recoil to other guns like usmc03 did because the gas block is adjustable and i've tuned it a bit, and the gun is so light. my point was really just that 17" is a viable alternative if you can't decide between 16" and 18"

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  #8  
Unread 12-27-09, 22:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
Take a good look at the BCM 1x8 18" SPR SS410 barrel.
I was thinking the exact same thing. I think BCM uses the USMC chamber spec too.

Another good option would be one of the Centurion Arms Mk12 Mod1 barrels, if they are available.

From Centurion Arms website:

"These barrels come from the same machines and the same people who make the military MK12 barrels for the Navy Special Operations community. These barrels are the result of tens of thousand of dollars in development done by the U.S. government to give our Special Operations guys the best weapon system they can have. We have spoken with many operators who have used these barrels and carried them in combat and have found unanimous satisfaction with their reliability and accuracy.

Specs
•Material: Blackened 416R Stainless
•Barrel extension: M4 feed ramps
•Chamber: optimized for use with MK262 (Black Hills 77gr equivalent)
•Twist: 1 in 7 right hand
•Contour: for use with OPS inc. suppressor and can also use AAC suppressors
•Length: 18 in and threaded 1/2x28 for use with most common muzzle devices"
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  #9  
Unread 01-03-10, 14:31
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Sorry for the delay in getting the upper receiver weights posted. Should give an "apples to apples comparison" between different 16" and 18" upper receivers:



03designgroup | AR15 Upper Receiver Weight Comparisons




Hope this helps
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  #10  
Unread 01-03-10, 15:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC03 View Post
Sorry for the delay in getting the upper receiver weights posted. Should give an "apples to apples comparison" between different 16" and 18" upper receivers:



03designgroup | AR15 Upper Receiver Weight Comparisons




Hope this helps
Thanks, love your website!
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  #11  
Unread 01-03-10, 19:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin907 View Post




My example of the Kreiger is splendid.
One of the finest barrels I've ever owned, no POI shift, very accurate.
now this is a GORGEOUS rifle. i would love something like this for my second build...
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