Stag 2T, S&W 15T, or save for DDM4v2?

[MOA]

I m new to AR's and coming over from the long range rifle world. I want a gun for plinking, maybe a couple classes, and as a backpacking/camping rifle. I would like one that will stay under 1.5" at 100 yards. With those requirments what would get of the 3 mentioned? What I really want is a LMT MRP but $1600 is above my budget. I know stag doesn't have the most checks on the chart, but I hear good things about them from range officers and the like. Maybe they just never seen a top teir AR? Smith is better on the chart, but people tell me to get a stag over it. and DD isnt even listed.
If this is in the wrong section please move it.

[Robb Jensen]

Of those choices I'd get the DD M4. Many places are blowing these out for $1300 or so through the end of the year.

I'd also highly recommend looking at the rifles from BCM.

[MOA]

Oh I have looked at the BCM guns. For the price of the DD I think I will just save for the LMT MRP 16". Its what I want anyway.

[seb5]

For the accuracy you want I think you might be better off with a BCM with SS barrel. I have 2 DD M-4's and on occasion get sub MOA and 1.5 pretty regularly with match ammo. With mil spec it's a crap shoot.

[MOA]

I would be happy with a solid 1.5 moa gun. I don't want a full on bull barrel gun, just something that is accurate enough to be fun and stone cold reliable. I keep thinking about the BMC upper and lower. Do they sell complete rifles or just upper and lowers?

[Roklok]

Originally Posted by MOA

I would be happy with a solid 1.5 moa gun. I don't want a full on bull barrel gun, just something that is accurate enough to be fun and stone cold reliable. I keep thinking about the BMC upper and lower. Do they sell complete rifles or just upper and lowers?

I don't see complete rifles on Bravo Company's web site, but you can buy complete upper and lower receiver groups separately, and then just put them together. Takes maybe a minute. That is what I am planning on doing soon.

[justin_247]

If I had to choose between the three, I would go first with the DDM4v2 and if it was out of my price range I might consider the M&P15T. I would not consider the 2T at all.

Generally, on this forum, people prefer Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, Charles Daly, and S&W.

With the exception of having a carbine length gas system like the other two, the DDM4v2 and 2T are different from the M&P15T. The M&P15T has a 10" free-float Troy rail with a folding front sight, while the DDM4v2 and 2T have a 7" free-float rail and a fixed front sight. Additionally, the M&P15T and the 2T have a 1/9 barrel twist while the DDM4v2 has a 1/7 twist.

So, the questions are: do you want a fixed front sight or a folding front sight, and do you want a 1/7 twist or a 1/9 twist, and what is your price range?

I'm assuming that your range is between $1200 and $1500, since you like the MRP but you're not quite there, and you're considering the DDM4v2.

You can make a DDM4v2 knock-off with almost identical specs if you buy a BCM upper receiver assembly in the exact same configuration for $844. Add a BCM lower receiver assembly for $350, and a Magpul MBUS rear BUIS for $45, and you have yourself a DDM4v2 for $1239, which saves you at least $70 from the prices I've seen it advertised for.

If you really like having a folding front sight and the monolithic rail on the LMT MRP and M&P15T, buy a BCM mid-length upper receiver group with a DD Lite rail for $924, a BCM lower receiver assembly for $350, and Magpul MBUS BUIS combo for $83 ($45 for the BUIS above and $38 for the front BUIS), and you have yourself a top of the line rifle for $1357. That's around the same price you'd pay for the M&P15T, but with better specs, and much less than what you'd pay for an MRP.

And you can cut $50 off of any of those prices if you buy a S&W lower receiver assembly from G&R Tactical instead of one made by BCM.

Or, if you want to start with a complete rifle, I recommend you purchase a DDXV from Peach State Guns for $949 and add a 7" Omega rail for $179, thereby basically making it a DDM4v2 for $1128.

Or you can cut down the front sight and add the 10" Troy rail that you like from the M&P15T for $240, and add the Magpul BUIS combo for $83, and you have yourself a rifle that greatly exceeds S&W specs for $1272.

And for $44 more than that, you could have added yourself a LaRue Tactical 10" rail system, bringing it up to a total of $1316.

Pick your flavor!

[justin_247]

One thing I forgot: the DDM4v2 comes with a Magpul stock and DD forward grip. If you add those two things in you simply can't beat the price that is being offered by Rainier Arms right now: $1299.

[MOA]

Well I prefer folding front and rear sites. My total budget is between $1200 and $1400. I have to wait tell tax season any ways, so I could probley save up more, pending no monitary disasters.

[seb5]

G&R Tactical sells complete BCM rifles here.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...&category=BCOM

[Vash1023]

MOA you have a PM

[FVC3]

Originally Posted by MOA

I m new to AR's and coming over from the long range rifle world. I want a gun for plinking, maybe a couple classes, and as a backpacking/camping rifle. I would like one that will stay under 1.5" at 100 yards. With those requirments what would get of the 3 mentioned? What I really want is a LMT MRP but $1600 is above my budget. I know stag doesn't have the most checks on the chart, but I hear good things about them from range officers and the like. Maybe they just never seen a top teir AR? Smith is better on the chart, but people tell me to get a stag over it. and DD isnt even listed.
If this is in the wrong section please move it.

Don't get too wrapped around the axle about the chart. The comparison section STILL doesn't give DD credit for its excellent A1.5 rear sight and Lifetime Warranty.
Go with Colt, DD, BCM - Noveske if you have the jack. Sounds like you are still putting your funds together. BCM is coming out with a middy with a lightweight barrel in early 2010. Add a rail, set of flip ups and an RDS matching your weight / price balance point and you're golden.

My next upper will be that BCM lightweight middy with a lo pro gas block and the lightest mid length rail on the market at the time.

[MOA]

Not to worried about the chart, just before I found this site I thought a DPMS was a ok AR,but I knew I wanted a 556 and not a 223. I do research before I buy, ALOT of it. I am the sole bread winner in a house of 5 so my toy money is rare. I like to look at things that have hard facts, and mil-spec is a hard fact. i know there are things that are better than mil-spec, I just want proof. I don't need a mil-spec trigger there are better ones. I want a mil-spec bolt carrier. Chrome lining doesn't mean much to me, 1-7 twist does. Get it?
My ideal AR would probley have a 16" mid weight barrel with 1 in 7 twist, probley stainless, with a mid length gas system and a 10" rail for end( if no MRP). I don't know about the lower, as long as the trigger is a nice 2 stage and its of good quality. You guys have given me a lot more to think about. I was just thinking I would here "buy this not that", but the options are endless. I guess I will start really considering building my AR(probley from BMC upper and lowers). I don't know what rails are good and what aren't. I like the saw type grip and the standard m4 stock works just fine for me. any other advise?

[justin_247]

Originally Posted by MOA

I guess I will start really considering building my AR(probley from BMC upper and lowers).

Unless you buy a lower receiver assembly and install the parts kit yourself, you're not really *building* your own rifle... you're just customizing it. The only "build" portion you have to do with a BCM upper receiver assembly and a BCM lower receiver assembly is line up the two take down pins and put the two halfs together. That's it! Nothing you wouldn't do in normal cleaning operations.

If you think of it that way, it's much less daunting. And it's the truth, as well.

Originally Posted by MOA

I don't know what rails are good and what aren't.

If you're going for a free-float rail, pretty much any rail by Daniel Defense or LaRue Tactical is good to go. If you want to pay *slightly* less (like $40) for a free-float rail, you can try the Troy rail that is on the M&P15T and 2T.

[MOA]

I know that assembling a upper and lower isn't really building a AR. I was thinking more of customizing a upper from BCM that doesnt come with the handguard and all that, but after looking it seems that it would be cheaper to just get it from them set up, thro some mag pul BIS on it, and pin it to a lower.

[MOA]

How is the quality of Spike Tacs lowers? It seems I could build a lower off one of there stripped lowers for far less that buying a complete lower from them or BCM and also include some upgrades(like MOA grip and stock, captured trigger pins). and I would get to know more about the system.

[Agfadoc]

Originally Posted by justin_247

If I had to choose between the three, I would go first with the DDM4v2 and if it was out of my price range I might consider the M&P15T. I would not consider the 2T at all.

Generally, on this forum, people prefer Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, Charles Daly, and S&W.

With the exception of having a carbine length gas system like the other two, the DDM4v2 and 2T are different from the M&P15T. The M&P15T has a 10" free-float Troy rail with a folding front sight, while the DDM4v2 and 2T have a 7" free-float rail and a fixed front sight. Additionally, the M&P15T and the 2T have a 1/9 barrel twist while the DDM4v2 has a 1/7 twist.

So, the questions are: do you want a fixed front sight or a folding front sight, and do you want a 1/7 twist or a 1/9 twist, and what is your price range?

I'm assuming that your range is between $1200 and $1500, since you like the MRP but you're not quite there, and you're considering the DDM4v2.

You can make a DDM4v2 knock-off with almost identical specs if you buy a BCM upper receiver assembly in the exact same configuration for $844. Add a BCM lower receiver assembly for $350, and a Magpul MBUS rear BUIS for $45, and you have yourself a DDM4v2 for $1239, which saves you at least $70 from the prices I've seen it advertised for.

If you really like having a folding front sight and the monolithic rail on the LMT MRP and M&P15T, buy a BCM mid-length upper receiver group with a DD Lite rail for $924, a BCM lower receiver assembly for $350, and Magpul MBUS BUIS combo for $83 ($45 for the BUIS above and $38 for the front BUIS), and you have yourself a top of the line rifle for $1357. That's around the same price you'd pay for the M&P15T, but with better specs, and much less than what you'd pay for an MRP.

And you can cut $50 off of any of those prices if you buy a S&W lower receiver assembly from G&R Tactical instead of one made by BCM.

Or, if you want to start with a complete rifle, I recommend you purchase a DDXV from Peach State Guns for $949 and add a 7" Omega rail for $179, thereby basically making it a DDM4v2 for $1128.

Or you can cut down the front sight and add the 10" Troy rail that you like from the M&P15T for $240, and add the Magpul BUIS combo for $83, and you have yourself a rifle that greatly exceeds S&W specs for $1272.

And for $44 more than that, you could have added yourself a LaRue Tactical 10" rail system, bringing it up to a total of $1316.

Pick your flavor!

I can't tell you how helpful this post was for a newb like me... Thanks for your effort in putting it all together.

[MOA]

That was the post that really got me thinking too. it was very informative.

[shootist~]

Kind of a "duh" thing, but when pricing just an Upper, be sure you know if it comes with a bolt carrier assembly and charging handle or not; and possibly a rear BUIS as well. This is what pushed me over the edge on ordering a Noveske Basic Light Reece 16" complete, since those items were included.

Net-net, it was still higher at http://www.pkfirearms.com/content/1/20/83/135 than some other good choices I was considering, but not by as much as I first thought.

[MOA]

Are the Noveske really that accurate? $1250 seems like a lot for a upper. I really like the 18" SPR. Alot...