GSG SD .22 Now Illegal!

[marine42]

Today after placing an order for A GSG carbine .22 I was doing continued research trying to justify my expense....... when I can across this sites competitions GSG forum and read that the ATF has stated that all GSG SD models are illegal and a recall has been made to replace all the fake cans with new legal ones.
When asked if the carbine models were effected no decision has been made as of "yet".
Holly crap- I cancelled my order immediately and I am going to wait and see if the carbines are recalled as well first before I come into possesion of something illegal.
I know it is my second response from a noob and you all may think I am full of crap but check it out. Very serious and wanted to spread the word to all those that already have the weapon to look into this pronto.

Copy of ATI response-
To all retail customers:

On January 2010 American Tactical Imports Inc received official notification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and explosives that the original barrel shroud (aka: fake suppressor) supplied with your GSG 5 SD model must be replaced. It has been determined that this shroud is regulated under the National Firearms Act. American Tactical will provide a replacement shroud at no charge for each GSG 5 SD model sold or currently in inventory.
Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible. We anticipate arrival of the new shrouds to begin by the middle of February 2010.
IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD.
WHAT TO DO:
If possible return your old shroud to the dealer where purchased and show him this notice. The shroud will be returned to ATI along with a list of serial numbers from the guns that the shrouds were removed. ATI will send replacements to the dealer for pick up at your convenience; ATI will be sending replacements as fast as logistics allow. If your dealer is out of business or difficult to reach, or you purchased your gun used, from a consumer, return the shroud directly by US mail or UPS to American Tactical Imports Inc. 100 Airpark Drive Rochester, NY 14624.
PLEASE TRY NOT TO CALL US. We will provide comprehensive information on our web site www.americantactical.us , and www.ar15.com or by e-mail to atiexchange@americantactical.us
REMEMBER, INCLUDE THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER WITH EACH SHROUD OR A REPLACEMENT WILL NOT BE ISSUED.
This action IS NOT being instituted through any fault and is strictly due to NFA compliance. American Tactical will assume the responsibility to satisfy the requirements in an effort to minimize the impact on our customers and protect your investment.
We at American Tactical Imports Inc. sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this unfortunate situation.

Sincerely,
Anthony DiChario
President C.E.O. retailcandoc.021210

[DrMark]

Wow, that's pretty weird.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Maybe this belongs in the NFA section, but what could possibly make it illegal? Not going to argue that it isn't, I just wonder what makes it illegal - is it that it doesn't meet some import rules, or that the faux-pressor actually works

[marine42]

Thank god I cancelled my order.
It seems that the carbines from another dealer were also taken down from the racks per an ATF audit. Just type in GSG ATF and it comes up.
I guess the reasoning is that the ATF says the cans on these are hollow and could conceivably be altered to a true NFA prohibitted device.

Now if I can only get my money back in a timely manner. My card was charged before the cancellation.

I think it's stupid that they okayed these to come into country only to later change there minds. Talk about BS but I sure as heck do not want to press the issue.
I can only imagaine how all that have these must feel right now.
Just spreading the word to those that can see this. I really wonder how someone even further in the sticks without a computer or those that moved are going to find out? Could you imagine some guy with his kid shooting at the range getting thrown in the slammer for something he never got wind of the recall? WOW this is just sickening.

[CCK]

It ain't illegal.

Show me a "ruling" from the ATF.

Chris

[MadDog]

It may not be illegal but BATFE came to my local shop and took their entire stock of GSG5-SD's away. I know this because I was there.

MadDog

ETA: It's a good thing I only have an SBR'd GSG5-PK model with a real suppressor. No hastle here other then the tax stamps.

[marine42]

Originally Posted by CCK

It ain't illegal.

Show me a "ruling" from the ATF.

Chris

Actually, I do have this, kind of, although the wording of the law and their reasons only kind of match up if you squint and tilt your head to the side a bit. Here is what the referenced in their letter regarding the re-testing of the shroud;

"As you are aware, the GCA, 18 USC $ 921 (a) (24), defines 'firearm silencer' as follows:

"....any device for silencing, muffling or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

General characteristics of known firearm silencers include:
1 Ported inner tube (bleed holes)
2 Expansion chambers
3 Baffles or washers which create seperate expansion chambers
4 sound dampening material such as foam, steel wool and other materials
5 End Caps
6 Encapsulators

The previously submitted GSG-5SD barrel shroud incorporates a large expansion chamber and integral end caps and, therefore, was classified as a firearm silencer."

That's what they said.

From ATI (GSG)-
Do not kill the messenger ( just trying to let everyone know is all)
Can't wait to finish a few AR-15 builds to show them off instead of posting bad news.

[CCK]

Originally Posted by marine42

Actually, I do have this, kind of, although the wording of the law and their reasons only kind of match up if you squint and tilt your head to the side a bit. Here is what the referenced in their letter regarding the re-testing of the shroud;

"As you are aware, the GCA, 18 USC $ 921 (a) (24), defines 'firearm silencer' as follows:

"....any device for silencing, muffling or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

General characteristics of known firearm silencers include:
1 Ported inner tube (bleed holes)
2 Expansion chambers
3 Baffles or washers which create seperate expansion chambers
4 sound dampening material such as foam, steel wool and other materials
5 End Caps
6 Encapsulators

The previously submitted GSG-5SD barrel shroud incorporates a large expansion chamber and integral end caps and, therefore, was classified as a firearm silencer."

That's what they said.

From ATI (GSG)-
Do not kill the messenger ( just trying to let everyone know is all)
Can't wait to finish a few AR-15 builds to show them off instead of posting bad news.

I saw that too. What I am suggesting is a letter written to a third party and posted in something less than its entirety (for reasons only known to ATI and the ATF), and posted on a website know for spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt, hardly constitutes legal service.

Would you agree with that?

Chris

[CCK]

Originally Posted by MadDog

It may not be illegal but BATFE came to my local shop and took their entire stock of GSG5-SD's away. I know this because I was there.

I find that interesting as they are granting end users an amnesty to return the offending part. I wonder under what authority the ATF thought they could steal private property from your local shop's shelves.

Chris

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Originally Posted by CCK

I find that interesting as they are granting end users an amnesty to return the offending part. I wonder under what authority the ATF thought they could steal private property from your local shop's shelves.

Chris

"Either you or the rifles are coming with us, you decide."

That would be pretty persuasive I'd think.

You'd think they'd just take the offending part and let replacement parts be shipped?

[Spooky130]

You would figure that any gun with a faux suppressor would be looked at very closely by the ATF. They should have caught this much earlier. I wonder what caused them to look at it again and then decide that it was much too close to a real suppressor?

Spooky

[bkb0000]

that's a gigantic hunk of metal that offers no performance advantage. im sure the manufacturer probably didnt even think about it- they just realized "wow, if we hollow it out, it's a lot lighter."

so if you're willing to destroy your barrel, you might get some degree of possible sound reduction from the thing. most likely you'd just get a gun that still sounds like a .22 but shoots crappy.

[CCK]

Originally Posted by bkb0000

that's a gigantic hunk of metal that offers no performance advantage. im sure the manufacturer probably didnt even think about it- they just realized "wow, if we hollow it out, it's a lot lighter."

so if you're willing to destroy your barrel, you might get some degree of possible sound reduction from the thing. most likely you'd just get a gun that still sounds like a .22 but shoots crappy.

Not only that but you'll have a large, cumbersome, 16" barreled, TWENTY TWO!

Chris

[wake.joe]

Civil Disobedience.

[bkb0000]

Originally Posted by CCK

Not only that but you'll have a large, cumbersome, 16" barreled, TWENTY TWO!

Chris

but it LOOKS like an MP5!

i got totally fakied by one about 6 months ago.. i'd gotten stuck with RSO duty at my range because the assigned member never showed up on open-to-the-public day, and i did. some dude all tac-blacked out rolled up and busted a suppressed MP5 out of a tac'd out nylon case with HK and Sig patches all over it... i went over to have him sign in, and possibly trade a couple magazines through my SPR for a couple through the '5... and i suddenly found myself in a state of shock and horror as he revealed the weapon's true nature. i awkwardly separated myself and went back to my bench.

in my defense, he was about 30' away. by the time i got close, and actually looked at it, it was obvious... but i'd never seen such a thing before. my bad for ignorance... apparently these have been out for a while.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Wooo-hoo! I finally have something to post on the NFA forum!

So on the bad-ass scale, is having an illegal suppressor totally negated by having it attached to an GSG-5? Chicks still won't dig me.

[Mark-VA]

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47159

Just a few threads down from this one.