UPS hub hassles me about shipping firearms...

milosz · #1 03-22-10, 19:39

Trying to ship a couple of handguns to Bill Springfield for trigger jobs, went to the usual UPS hub where I've shipped before (but not for some time).

Clerk tells me that they need proof I'm shipping to a dealer. I tell him that no, they don't (per their policies that I've shipped with before) and that the address printed out is for a gunsmith. "Is that a dealer?" Uh, sure (didn't want to explain the concept of FFLs). Still no dice, they want him to fax them something to prove it. (Which obviously isn't going to happen.)

So I'm trying to decide what to do:
- Call UPS customer service and spend who knows how long trying to talk to someone and find a solution.
- Printing out their policies and showing them that there is no proof requirement.
- Taking a copy of my C&R FFL and seeing if they assume that means I'm a 'dealer.'

spamsammich · #2 03-22-10, 19:55

Unless they've had a major policy change lately, what you got was a line of pure bullshit. I shipped a handgun last month and didn't need proof of where it was going. Go back and ask to talk to somebody that doesn't have their head up their ass. Quote me if you like.

pilotguyo540 · #3 03-22-10, 20:40

They dont need to know what is in the box, just a declared value for the insurance. If that does not work, go with FedEx. As always, keep your mouth shut

Littlelebowski · #4 03-22-10, 20:50

Go with FedEx. They're not unionized either which makes it even better.

rdc0000 · #5 03-22-10, 20:59

Get Bill's FFL and show them, Do not let them make a copy or file it as ATF strickly advises against it. Bill will not mind and it's just easier this way. Stupid lawyer wanabees.

Also, not telling a common carrier that there is a firearm in the package is against the law.

Ridge_Runner_5 · #6 03-22-10, 21:08

Whats in the box?

Precious metals.

dmanflynn · #7 03-22-10, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridge_Runner_5

Whats in the box?

Precious metals.

Just a little concentrated RDX and plastisizer

pilotguyo540 · #8 03-22-10, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdc0000

Get Bill's FFL and show them, Do not let them make a copy or file it as ATF strickly advises against it. Bill will not mind and it's just easier this way. Stupid lawyer wanabees.

Also, not telling a common carrier that there is a firearm in the package is against the law.

What law is broken? It is being shipped from a legitimate owner to a legitimate gunsmith. Fedex or UPS or USPS do not need to know the details. It is none of their business.... sort of.

Forgive me if I am wrong, I am no expert. My shipping guy in the office (we are not a firearm related entity) said its no problem when I checked with him to verify my opinion.

really, in the end, who is gonna know or give a damn? If you are crossing an international border, customs will be up your ass in a second. Then they would need to know.

Just to be safe, look up the laws rather than taking legal advice from strangers on a web forum.

dmanflynn · #9 03-22-10, 21:53

I too am no legal expert but the illegal activity he was talking of might be when you ship to another person or dealer that is not a gunsmith. Then it might be illegal but to my knowledge it isnt illegal to ship a firearm to a gunsmith without telling them its a gun. Unless your shipping with a company that doesnt allow firearms to be shipped, which would could turn south potentially. But as long as your shipping provider is ok with firearms shipments, and they dont state that it needs to be known that its a firearm then I wouldnt think it'd be illegal. Just my .02 cents, thats my reckoning any way.

Palmguy · #10 03-22-10, 22:00

18 USC 922 (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Not a lawyer, read it how you will and at your own risk.

pilotguyo540 · #11 03-22-10, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palmguy

18 USC 922 (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Not a lawyer, read it how you will and at your own risk.

okay, enough with the hear say nonsense! I want facts people.

dmanflynn · #12 03-22-10, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palmguy

18 USC 922 (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Not a lawyer, read it how you will and at your own risk.

I think I was wrong

I appreciate the post, it did clear a little up. Sorry bout that

mourneblade · #13 03-22-10, 22:11

I sent a pistol back to the manufacturer for some repairs today. I noticed the ups label sent by the manufacturer said, "Machined Parts" in the description. Thought that was a good idea.

johnnywitt · #14 03-22-10, 22:43

to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice

Any FFL IS a licensed dealer. It says "to persons OTHER than licensed... without written notice" So if the person or entity is licensed and you are legally sending it to them, I would interpret that to mean they don't need written notice. However I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, nor am I an attorney.

Just sayin'.

pilotguyo540 · #15 03-22-10, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnywitt

to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice

Any FFL IS a licensed dealer. It says "to persons OTHER than licensed... without written notice" So if the person or entity is licensed and you are legally sending it to them, I would interpret that to mean they don't need written notice. However I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, nor am I an attorney.

Just sayin'.

Good call. I am staying in a holiday inn express tonight and have noticed that lawyers are allowed to write large run on sentences, while the rest of us are not.

It shall be unlawful for any person to deliver to any common or contract carrier for transportation in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported; blah blah blah.

I cut out all of the bs and the crap that didn't apply to make it easier to read.