Problem with thumb safety on my M&P 45

cgcorrea · #1 05-06-10, 15:48

I'm having some issues with keeping the thumb safety in the off position when I grip the gun. As soon as I get a good dominant grip on the weapon, the meaty portion right behind the thumb of my support hand(Left hand) slowly pushes the safety up and to the on position. I have pretty big hands. Does anyone else have this problem? And if so, does anyone know of a solution that does not involve removing the safety. I was thinking maybe I can modify the safety and just make it shorter so that it does not make contact with that portion of my hand.

C4IGrant · #2 05-06-10, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgcorrea

I'm having some issues with keeping the thumb safety in the off position when I grip the gun. As soon as I get a good dominant grip on the weapon, the meaty portion right behind the thumb of my support hand(Left hand) slowly pushes the safety up and to the on position. I have pretty big hands. Does anyone else have this problem? And if so, does anyone know of a solution that does not involve removing the safety. I was thinking maybe I can modify the safety and just make it shorter so that it does not make contact with that portion of my hand.

The correct way to shoot a gun with a 1911 style TS is for you to rest your thumb on top of it while shooting.

C4

sevin8nin · #3 05-06-10, 15:55

I don't know if that's the "correct way" as I believe everyone kinda has their own way of doing things, and shooting firearms is closer to an art than a science.

But, that being said, it is preferred to shoot with a 'thumbs forward' handgun grip.
I googled it and saw this guys video. I didn't watch the whole thing, but it displays what i'm referring to:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/104239...humbs_forward/

I myself adopted the 'thumbs forward' grip when i bought my first 1911 because i wanted to make sure that thumb safety came off and stayed off. I now use that grip for everything, and I can't even remember how i held a gun before.

cgcorrea · #4 05-06-10, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

The correct way to shoot a gun with a 1911 style TS is for you to rest your thumb on top of it while shooting.

C4

I tried that. It just does not feel natural to me. Although I really am not the most familiar with the1911 world. Do you think I should just keep at it until it becomes natural? I would just hate to have to remove the thumb safety. I like the safety value it adds to the weapon. That's just me though. I know alot of people don't like it.

John_Wayne777 · #5 05-06-10, 16:25

I would try shooting with your thumb riding the safety, Devil Dog.

That's generally the preferred method of operation when you have a thumb safety of that configuration. It's not as comfortable for me as with a 1911, but it's effective on the M&P and is the best way to ensure that you don't accidentally engage the safety under recoil.

LHQuattro · #6 05-06-10, 16:30

Not to derail too much, but I think by correct, Grant means "most reliable, highest performance". Thumbs forward, strong hand thumb on top of 1911-type safety is pretty much proven beyond dispute at this point.
1 - it keeps the safety from engaging inadvertently, and
2 - thumbs forward, support hand wrist locked down enables dramatically better and more consistent recoil control. Yes, there are decent shooters that still use Weaver. But there are no great shooters that do it - they've all migrated to thumbs forward because its proven to work the best at high speed shooting.

So, as to what is correct, guess the question is - how far do you want to go with your shooting skill?

LHQuattro · #7 05-06-10, 16:38

Thumbs forward doesn't usually feel natural when you first try it - your left hand is rotated down. It's kind of like stepping in to a sports car after driving a little grocery getter minivan - it feels weird at first, but with practise, you can drive it a lot harder.

Assuming you have normal range of motion - thumbs forward will take you much farther. Regardless of whether I'm shooting a 1911 or not, I shoot with the same grip with most other semi-autos - the right thumb is in the same position (on top of where the 1911 safety would be). (Might have to modify your grip some with guns with goofy controls)

cgcorrea · #8 05-06-10, 16:51

I do actually shoot with that thumbs forward grip, like you guys are describing. The only difference is that I rest the thumb of my shooting hand on top and a bit behind my support thumb(also in the forward position), off the safety. I have shot a couple of 1911s like this and it's never been an issue. The recoil control on this grip is outstanding. Accuracy has never been an issue with it for me either. It works great for me all around, just not with this particular safety. Maybe actually keeping the shooting thumb on the safety might make it better. I'll give it a try again and keep at it. Maybe I just need to get a feel for it. I appreciate the advice guys.

LHQuattro · #9 05-06-10, 17:15

Interesting....when I went to thumbs forward, my right thumb just naturally wanted to go on top of the 1911 safety. That just happened to be where it fit best. I make some exceptions for different guns - example with my wife's BHP, the TS is a little too high, and so I rest my thumb a little farther out away from the frame/slide and that keeps me from getting slide bite on my thumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgcorrea

I do actually shoot with that thumbs forward grip, like you guys are describing. The only difference is that I rest the thumb of my shooting hand on top and a bit behind my support thumb(also in the forward position), off the safety. I have shot a couple of 1911s like this and it's never been an issue. The recoil control on this grip is outstanding. Accuracy has never been an issue with it for me either. It works great for me all around, just not with this particular safety. Maybe actually keeping the shooting thumb on the safety might make it better. I'll give it a try again and keep at it. Maybe I just need to get a feel for it. I appreciate the advice guys.

LHQuattro · #10 05-06-10, 17:27

I should add that when I do thumbs forward, left wrist cocked down - there isn't room for me to put my right thumb below the safety. It either on top of the safety, or in the case of the BHP - out to side.
I'm guessing that your thumbs forward grip is lower on the gun than mine. I grab about as high as possible, with my left hand rotated down about 45 degrees.

cgcorrea · #11 05-06-10, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHQuattro

Interesting....when I went to thumbs forward, my right thumb just naturally wanted to go on top of the 1911 safety. That just happened to be where it fit best. I make some exceptions for different guns - example with my wife's BHP, the TS is a little too high, and so I rest my thumb a little farther out away from the frame/slide and that keeps me from getting slide bite on my thumb.

I guess the way I do it is product of me shooting thumbs forward with M9 in the military. I went from the way the Marine Corps taught me how to grip a handgun to the thumbs forward grip because I saw how well it managed recoil. Since the M9 doesn't have a thumb safety like that, I guess my support thumb just fell in that spot. And that's how i have shot ever since. That's probably why it feels so different for me with my thumb on the safety. I'm gonna adjust though, and start placing my thumb on the safety like you guys have suggested. If I start training that way it should become a non-issue. Recoil control should stay exactly the same so I really have nothing to lose in making the switch. Thanks man. And thanks again to everybody else as well. I really appreciate the input.

cgcorrea · #12 05-06-10, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHQuattro

I should add that when I do thumbs forward, left wrist cocked down - there isn't room for me to put my right thumb below the safety. It either on top of the safety, or in the case of the BHP - out to side.
I'm guessing that your thumbs forward grip is lower on the gun than mine. I grab about as high as possible, with my left hand rotated down about 45 degrees.

Yeah, I grab as high as possible too. My shooting thumb ends up on basically the same level as the safety, but just to the left of it. Kinda like it's "piggy backing" on my support thumbs i guess would be the best way to describe it.

BWT · #13 05-06-10, 18:30

I'll tell you, I carry a 1911, and placing your thumb on top of the thumb safety becomes natural the more you handle it. I place my second thumb usually ontop of the flat portion of the slide stop, away from the checkering.

Thumbs forward also is really (IMHO) the best way to shoot, as you grip the gun as high as you can (within reason) to control recoil.

That being said, I was in a Gun Shop today, helping my brother shop for handguns, I've read a lot about M&P's here, he's looking at an XD, and for his needs, I think it'll work fine (Specifically the XD-45 Model, with thumb safety), so I saw in the case an M&P 9 and handled it.

The thumb safeties do click on and off fairly easily compared to a 1911, I can tell you that right away, I really think you're going to have to learn to put your thumb ontop of the Thumb Safety.

YMMV.

cgcorrea · #14 05-06-10, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWT

I'll tell you, I carry a 1911, and placing your thumb on top of the thumb safety becomes natural the more you handle it. I place my second thumb usually ontop of the flat portion of the slide stop, away from the checkering.

Thumbs forward also is really (IMHO) the best way to shoot, as you grip the gun as high as you can (within reason) to control recoil.

That being said, I was in a Gun Shop today, helping my brother shop for handguns, I've read a lot about M&P's here, he's looking at an XD, and for his needs, I think it'll work fine (Specifically the XD-45 Model, with thumb safety), so I saw in the case an M&P 9 and handled it.

The thumb safeties do click on and off fairly easily compared to a 1911, I can tell you that right away, I really think you're going to have to learn to put your thumb ontop of the Thumb Safety.

YMMV.

I'm definately gonna start doing so. After this discussion I really do feel that this is the way I'm supposed to be shooting this particular handgun(1911 as well obviously). And it DAMN sure beats modifying or removing the thumb safety. Although I don't think it would have ever gotten to that point to tell you the truth, as I don't think I'm qualified to do such a thing. In doing so I would probably be more likely to break something on the weapon than help any

BWT · #15 05-06-10, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgcorrea

I'm definately gonna start doing so. After this discussion I really do feel that this is the way I'm supposed to be shooting this particular handgun(1911 as well obviously). And it DAMN sure beats modifying or removing the thumb safety. Although I don't think it would have ever gotten to that point to tell you the truth, as I don't think I'm qualified to do such a thing. In doing so I would probably be more likely to break something on the weapon than help any

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

Todd explains it pretty well.

You're pretty much going to set your right thumb ontop your left thumb, the end of my right thumb sits right ontop of where my thumb begins. (If I could take a picture of it I would, but obviously, I need hands to take pictures.

)

It takes a little getting use to, just like reaching out further on the handguard of an AR does, but I'll tell you, it works, at least in my experience.

C4IGrant · #16 05-06-10, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgcorrea

I tried that. It just does not feel natural to me. Although I really am not the most familiar with the1911 world. Do you think I should just keep at it until it becomes natural? I would just hate to have to remove the thumb safety. I like the safety value it adds to the weapon. That's just me though. I know alot of people don't like it.

No it does not (angle is wrong). This is why I do not recommend them.

Luckily for you, you can remove them and install the spacers.

C4

DocGKR · #17 05-06-10, 20:16

cgcorrea--At SOTG Range 130, they ABSOLUTELY teach thumb on top of the MEU-SOC 1911 safety when shooting. This is also the preferred way to shoot the M&P w/ambi safety.

One of the main advantages of the M&P over the Glock for uniformed patrol use is the availability of a manual safety, otherwise I'd be tempted to stick with the 3rd gen G17's and 4th gen G22's. All my M&P's (40 & 45) are outfitted with thumb safeties; they work great, especially for former 1911 shooters.

S500N · #18 05-06-10, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocGKR

cgcorrea--At SOTG Range 130, they ABSOLUTELY teach thumb on top of the MEU-SOC 1911 safety when shooting. This is also the preferred way to shoot the M&P w/ambi safety.

One of the main advantages of the M&P over the Glock for uniformed patrol use is the availability of a manual safety, otherwise I'd be tempted to stick with the 3rd gen G17's and 4th gen G22's. All my M&P's (40 & 45) are outfitted with thumb safeties; they work great, especially for former 1911 shooters.

Dr. Roberts,

In your opinion, does the 4th gen G22 correct the previous deficiencies of this platform as they relate to issues with weapon mounted lights and the shorter service life compared to the G17?

Thanks,

Steve

LHQuattro · #19 05-06-10, 22:34

Grant may be on to something. Some folks hands just aren't happy with the M&P TS. Works fine for me, but I've heard other people (fellow 1911 guys) not like them, and some others like them fine.
Dunno - just a difference in hands I guess. It works for me, may not for you.
If not, just take the safety off.

DocGKR · #20 05-07-10, 04:47

Quote:

"In your opinion, does the 4th gen G22 correct the previous deficiencies of this platform as they relate to issues with weapon mounted lights and the shorter service life compared to the G17?"

In the short term, the gen 4 G22's so far seem to be more consistent than gen 3 G22's; however, the true test will be long term durability and reliability--for that we will have to wait at least 12-18 months and assess how large numbers of 4th gen G22's do over the course of shooting 50,000+ rounds.