75gr TAP Info...

[Razorhunter]

Guys,
I recently read in Shotgun News, a comment made by the author, that Hornady TAP rounds penetrate LESS than a .45ACP round.
I honestly would have NEVER believed this to be true, (and I don't necessarily believe it now), but I would like to know what you guys think about this????
I can Google all day long, and read for hours and hours until my head spins, regarding ammo performance, but honestly, its very exhauting to do this over and over.
I would also like to know what Hornady 75gr TAP rounds will do to body armor of different types???

Would you guys care to comment on what YOU personally feel is your favorite defense round in the heavier weights?? (ie 69gr and heavier only please).
Very interested to hear your comments...

[Voodoochild]

From what I have heard and read it is supposed to be some of the best PD ammo out there. That and the MK262 are supposed to be cream of the top. I am not sure how it does against body armor.

[C4IGrant]

Your comments do not surprise me and is what I have been using in my home defense weapon for years.

Remember that there are 3 different types of 75gr TAP. There is the Civy stuff (FPD), LE and NATO.



C4

[Razorhunter]

Grant,
I thought there were TWO types of TAP.

.223 TAP FPD in black box (most common, seen in most gun stores)

AND

5.56 TAP in red box, only difference is the 5.56 chambering/pressures

Actually, I've also heard there is some 60gr stuff that is armor piercing or something like that??? Not sure.


Can someone please tell me which is which? Grant just listed that there is "the Civy stuff (FPD), LE and NATO"

I'm not sure WHICH of the above is which? I'm assuming the .223 black box is the Civi, and the 5.56 is NATO?
What is the LE???


Someone clear this up and list each version with details... Is there a 75gr offering in ALL THREE TYPES???

Thanks.

[Rifleman_04]

It penetrates less because it is designed for police applications. They obviously wouldnt want to over penetrate in certain environments. The 60gr "armor peircing" is the barrier stuff. Designed for shooting through light cover, windshields, etc.

[Razorhunter]

Yes, I understand that SWAT/etc would want something that didn't penetrate too deep.
However, I would NEVER have thought that TAP (due to it's "less penetration design) would be some of the best stuff available.
I am trying to decide on WHICH ammo I should start stocking up on, for when the SHTF (end of the world/etc). IOW, I'm just trying to decide on the best ammo to stock up on, for defense purposes, and I really am sitting here scratching my head, wondering IF I want a round that is designed for LESS penetration than other rounds????

Would something else be better??? (forgetting about the ammo shortage that we are experiencing in the world right now)...


I just don't want to start spending tons of my $$ to stock up on ammo, when there might be a better all around choice.
Granted, I realize all kinds of factors come into play here, but I'm looking for the best all around defense ammo for a 16" 1/7 bbl carbine....
"LESS PENETRATION" kind of scares me off from TAP... (YES, I realize it's still a good round, but damn)
What do YOU GUYS say??????

[f.2]

5.56 mm duty loads, Tactical Forums, DocGKR

visual catalog of the 5 different loads that Hornady, TOS, Molon

[Robb Jensen]

Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo

Guys,
I recently read in Shotgun News, a comment made by the author, that Hornady TAP rounds penetrate LESS than a .45ACP round.
I honestly would have NEVER believed this to be true, (and I don't necessarily believe it now), but I would like to know what you guys think about this????

I'm by no means a ballistics expert.
The 75gr fragments very early. The bullet is very long (which is why it needs the fast 1x7 and 1x8 twist rates to stabilze) and it isn't hard to make it go unstable and then fragment. This is a good thing as you want complete fragmentation inside of the intended target.

A friend of mine with the FBI at Quantico likes their Federal 64gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. He says it does well on barriers, glass, clothing etc. and doesn't suffer from the naked man syndrome.

[C4IGrant]

Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo

Grant,
I thought there were TWO types of TAP.

.223 TAP FPD in black box (most common, seen in most gun stores)

AND

5.56 TAP in red box, only difference is the 5.56 chambering/pressures

Actually, I've also heard there is some 60gr stuff that is armor piercing or something like that??? Not sure.


Can someone please tell me which is which? Grant just listed that there is "the Civy stuff (FPD), LE and NATO"

I'm not sure WHICH of the above is which? I'm assuming the .223 black box is the Civi, and the 5.56 is NATO?
What is the LE???


Someone clear this up and list each version with details... Is there a 75gr offering in ALL THREE TYPES???

Thanks.

There are three and the LE version is also .223. The 75gr NATO is the only one that is 5.56.

75gr TAP (LE) model # 83276
75gr TAP (NATO) model # 8126
75gr TAP (FPD) model # 80268

I have in stock the LE TAP and have on order the NATO 75gr TAP if anyone wants any.


C4

[RWBlue]

[quote=Paul Cataldo;54228] I just don't want to start spending tons of my $$ to stock up on ammo, when there might be a better all around choice.
QUOTE]

I see why the police use the 75gr. Over penetration is an issue.
I see why some military units use the 75gr. Longer range accuracy and longer range penetration.

And maybe it is worth while for us to have some on hand. But the cost is high and there is a down side to that round in the fact that it doesn't work well in shooting through wall, cars, glass... But works very well in shooting fleshy animals.

It was noted by a friend that the 64gr Fed Boded bear claw does a good job on deer. So I would expect it would be satisfactory for humans also.

So I have a few 75gr bullets and some loaded 75gr ammo, and I have some 64gr bullets I will gel test this summer and maybe deer test this fall.

But right now my SHTF supplies are mainly the M855. It may not be the "best" at a perticular item (over pen, long range accuracy), but it is has decent penetration, decent terminal balistics, decent accuracy, avaliable for a reasonable cost and quantities and functions well in all my rifles. I have a hard time not reccomending it as the go to ammo.

Now if I could get my hands on some M995, that would change the conversation a little.

[C4IGrant]

[quote=RWBlue;54294]

Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo

I just don't want to start spending tons of my $$ to stock up on ammo, when there might be a better all around choice.
QUOTE]

I see why the police use the 75gr. Over penetration is an issue.
I see why some military units use the 75gr. Longer range accuracy and longer range penetration.

And maybe it is worth while for us to have some on hand. But the cost is high and there is a down side to that round in the fact that it doesn't work well in shooting through wall, cars, glass... But works very well in shooting fleshy animals.

It was noted by a friend that the 64gr Fed Boded bear claw does a good job on deer. So I would expect it would be satisfactory for humans also.

So I have a few 75gr bullets and some loaded 75gr ammo, and I have some 64gr bullets I will gel test this summer and maybe deer test this fall.

But right now my SHTF supplies are mainly the M855. It may not be the "best" at a perticular item (over pen, long range accuracy), but it is has decent penetration, decent terminal balistics, decent accuracy, avaliable for a reasonable cost and quantities and functions well in all my rifles. I have a hard time not reccomending it as the go to ammo.

Now if I could get my hands on some M995, that would change the conversation a little.

I understand what your saying, but a SHTF scenario is a far stretch and a burglar coming into your home is a realistic one. I personally only keep about 100rds of TAP on hand for personal use, the rest is M855, which is what I use for training.


C4

[CarlosDJackal]

Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo

...I just don't want to start spending tons of my $$ to stock up on ammo, when there might be a better all around choice....

One thing you must remember is that there is no such animal as an "all around choice" when it comes to just about anything. Make a determination of what environment you will most likely need the ammo/gun combination and make your selection based on that and not what the most recent "fad" is.

I have personally stuck to the 55-grain TAP and TBBC for my SBR. Primarily because all my practice ammo is 55-grains in weight and I want to keep use rounds that have similar zeroes. I tried the 60 and 75-grain round duty ammo for a while; but I kept forgetting to change my scope's setting from one to another and was instead using holdovers even at my 50-yard zero. IMHO, this is not a good way to do business since it can ingrain the wrong holdovers at the wrong distances which I might end up using when the SHTF. In other words my holdover at my zero range (50-yards) should be zero and not 2-inches high.

Choose a round that will suit your needs and train with it. Make sure that it functions in your rifle and has the POC as whatever rounds you might use to practice and/or train with. JM2CW.

[ffhounddog]

I use the 62 grain barrier and I practice with 62 grain myself. I have not been finding much of that stuff so I might start practicing with 55 grain since most training goes out to 100 yards. I have a match rifle that I use my 75 grain stuff but my go to is my 16 inch AR.

[f.2]

Ok, I caught that. If this is the 5.56 #8126N then how much for a case?

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

T...and have on order the NATO 75gr TAP if anyone wants any.


C4

[C4IGrant]

Originally Posted by f.2

Ok, I caught that. If this is the 5.56 #8126N then how much for a case?

It is the 8126N and don't know how much a case yet, but should be around $22 a box with QTY discounts available.

Shoot me an e-mail if you want to be on my back order list.



C4

[RWBlue]

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

I understand what your saying, but a SHTF scenario is a far stretch and a burglar coming into your home is a realistic one. I personally only keep about 100rds of TAP on hand for personal use, the rest is M855, which is what I use for training.


C4

I agree, and am doing somethign a long the same lines.

Where I differ is that I came to the conclusion that I was better off using a pistol inside the house in subberbia. YMMV

If I was using a M4 inside the house I would probably be using 75gr TAP.

[KevinB]

I run Mk262 Mod1 as my primary ammo -- I also have M856 Tracer - and M995 BlackTip AP for specific applications.
When back home on my own - I typically run M193 or M855 for training -- and use 75gr Red Box TAP.


In my own experience that inside 100m - the deviation from a battle ammo zero to a specialty ammo is negligable.

[Chris Poston]

Our department uses the 5.56/75gr. TAP in our 16" carbines. Some are 1/9 twist and some are 1/7 and both shoot it just fine with great accuracy. Our carbine quals. go out to 100 yards but we shoot out to 200 on a regular basis and we have found no stabilization issues to date.

We have shot several Level II vests/wall board/and thin car door metal and it penetrates with no problem but have no shootings with same. No scientific tests just what we could come up with on our own. We took the advice of several of those that post on this board and others as one of the main reasons we when to this load. It seems to be a good balance for a rural dept. where some medium range shots may be nessesary one minute and where we may be in and around neighborhoods the next.

We use the 75gr. practice load form Hornady as well and the only problem we have had with that load is it is under pressure and won't cycle certain carbines with H2 buffers. " H " buffers it the same carbine will run it fine. The 5.56 load will cycle in everything. I have read that several instructors have seen problems in classes the 75gr. practice load but we also dont shoot the volume of rounds that they see during a class.

[R Moran]

Maybe I missed it, but whats the diff. between the LE and cicilian stuff. Nato is higher velocity, got that, just not betwen the le and civvie.

Bob

[paradoc]

The ammo that is in the rifle every night is 75 gr. TAP FPD, I have shot a bit of it at close ranges and I am confident in using it in my HD gun.