POF Contact....

[Razorhunter]

Couple questions about POF guys,

1. Anyone been able to get POF on the phone lately??
I called all day for two days in a row, and no answer at all...???
Thanks guys.


2. Is it possible to order rifles directly from POF? Does anyone here know if they generally have most of their rifles in stock???
I'm looking at buying either a 16" 5.56 or possibly even a 7.62...

3. What is the difference between the POF 415 Gen II Lower and POF 416 Gen II Lower??? I have seen both of them for sale, and there is a $10 difference in price between the two, according to the website I saw them on.

[sproc]

1. No, but LWRC always answers right away
3. The 416 has the full auto pictogram. The 415 does not.

[Stickman]

I'm waiting on an answer from POF as well right now, so its possible that they are out of the office, or just very busy.

[Razorhunter]

Do any of you guys know anything about the availability of the 7.62 rifles, specifically the 20"???
I would like to know IF it is currently available, and ALSO I would like to know what kind of RAIL OPTIONS are going to be available???
There has of course, been talk of the 5.56 rifles having a VLTOR rail option, and I'm not quite sure if it has become/will become a reality, nor do I know if it will be an option on the 7.62/P-308's...
Eagerly awaiting these, HOPEFULLY sometime SOON!!!

Thanks for ANY help you guys could give...

[ABNINF]

Right now the only rail systems that fit on the POF weapons are their own proprietary RIS'. sproc is right. As a whole weapon system, the 416 is a FA weapon and NFA rules apply. The 415 is the SA version. You CAN however order a 416 upper to put on your SA lower. The only difference in the uppers is the FA bolt carrier. I talked to POF about this a few weeks ago.

[C4IGrant]

Originally Posted by sproc

1. No, but LWRC always answers right away
3. The 416 has the full auto pictogram. The 415 does not.

That maybe so, but they also might never get you a weapon.


C4

[C4IGrant]

E-mail is the best way to get ahold of POF IMHO (is what works for me).



C4

[ecds01]

Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo

Do any of you guys know anything about the availability of the 7.62 rifles, specifically the 20"???
I would like to know IF it is currently available, and ALSO I would like to know what kind of RAIL OPTIONS are going to be available???
There has of course, been talk of the 5.56 rifles having a VLTOR rail option, and I'm not quite sure if it has become/will become a reality, nor do I know if it will be an option on the 7.62/P-308's...
Eagerly awaiting these, HOPEFULLY sometime SOON!!!

Thanks for ANY help you guys could give...

pm sent

[Razorhunter]

Well guys,
Unfortunately, that damn MRR system might be a deal breaker for me.
I just don't like it at all. It's ugly IMO, and looks about 50% as good as the VLTOR and Daniel Defense rails that they retrofitted to their rifles in the past.
I would absolutely DIE for a POF that had a different rail system on it. I would probably buy TWO complete rifles INSTANTLY, IF they had rail options. (I'd buy one rifle in 5.56, and one OR EVEN TWO rifles in 7.62)
I just can't bring myself to like that POF MRR rail, and I just WISH POF would make the extremely popular alternative rail options available from the start. I mean, at LEAST offer us the good old fashioned VLTOR or DD rails to begine with, and THEN on down the road, offer us the new "MRR" rails. You gotta know the VLTOR, DD, etc are going to be the more popular choice.
They should know from feedback, that the VLTOR (or other rail options) would completely blow the market away, and it's actually a very feasible situation.
I know the MRR is a decent setup, but I just don't care for it. Most guys I know feel the same way.
Whenever POF does finally start offering these rifles with rail options, there are going to be some SUPER EXCITED guys scrambling to buy these rifles! I only HOPE AND PRAY this all will happen BEFORE the next AWB that we all get to look forward to.
Damn, I wonder IF POF would sell me a rifle WITHOUT the MRR system??? IOW, a rifle that just consists of ONLY the upper, lower, and bbl (and gas piston system, of course). This would KICK ASS, and I could then add a rail myself. This all only IF there are rail options that will fit, OR can at least be milled out to fit.
I wonder how much that VLTOR had to be modified to work? I'm not against a little custom milling.
I'm just looking for SOME WAY to own a POF rifle with an alternate rail option. I suppose before all this, I must find a way to communicate with POF. Going on 7 days now I think, and still no response from POF.
If anyone has any ideas, or knows of a way that I can succeed at this, I would be forever greatful.
Man, I was ready to spend $2400 with POF before all this. Guess I got too excited and jumped the gun.
I have been a bit leary of buying an LWRC rifle, due to some of the info I've received from very reliable names in the industry, but I honestly realize that nothing is etched in stone, and LWRC could end up proving themselves very well.
At least LWRC has a nice rail that appeals to me.
Maybe I should start looking at the LWRC's again perhaps???
Truth be known, I'd RATHER own a POF rifle.

All I know is that I would kill to be able to find a couple of QUALITY Gas Piston rifles in 5.56 and 7.62, with some type of rail option right now....

Or maybe I should just forget about it all, and just stay with Direct Impingement, and spend Several Grand $$$ on a Noveske 7.62 AR10...
OR, I could buy another Colt or LMT 16" Carbine, along with an Armalite AR10....? Sure did want a gas piston though...

Anybody else here stuck in my same shoes guys?

[AR15barrels]

Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo

I would absolutely DIE for a POF that had a different rail system on it. I would probably buy TWO complete rifles INSTANTLY, IF they had rail options. (I'd buy one rifle in 5.56, and one OR EVEN TWO rifles in 7.62)

I can't tell you about the 7.62's as I have not handled one yet, but I put a Troy rail on a 5.56 POF piston upper a few weeks ago.

It requires machining out the inside of the top rail until it's nearly paper thin for a few inches, but it fits and should be completely servicable.

I'll look for picures to post later if I find them.

The issue is the size of the gas piston assembly.
The outside of the gas cylinder is 0.55" or so.
DD and LaRue do not have enough metal to make a cut wide enough without the top of the rail becoming disconnected from the rest of the handguard.
The troy was JUST wide enough for me to do this.

[huskydog]

Here's a few pic of my POF with the Troy rail modified by Randall. Thanks for good job Randall!

[sproc]

Originally Posted by ABNINF

sproc is right. As a whole weapon system, the 416 is a FA weapon and NFA rules apply. The 415 is the SA version. You CAN however order a 416 upper to put on your SA lower. The only difference in the uppers is the FA bolt carrier. I talked to POF about this a few weeks ago.

I don't think the 416 lower is an NFA item. The extra pictogram for auto doesn't make it so. If it were drilled for an auto sear pin, you'd be right, but the ones shown on their website do not. But I'm not positive, so one would be prudent to confirm with them. That said, unless one has an RDIAS, and select-fire-enabled RLL, isn't a civilian, etc., having an AUTO pictogram on your SA-only rifle seems silly, IMHO.

Originally Posted by ABNINF

Right now the only rail systems that fit on the POF weapons are their own proprietary RIS

According to info and pics posted on TOS by POF in January, they plan(ned) to offer Troy and DD options in addition to the MRR. And here's an email purportedly from POF to that effect (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted By Multicast [on TOS]:
This is the email I got from POF.

Thank you for the interest in the newest member of the Gas Piston Weapon System. The P-308. We will begin taking orders from FFL Dealers beginning January 15, 2007. Expected delivery is May 2007.

P-308-16-DD-CF-308-CARBINE - Semi-Auto Integral-Key Bolt Carrier, Billet Machined 7075-T6 Flat Top Upper, 16.5"" Std. Fluted Barrel, C.R.O.S., Daniels Defense Mid-Lenght Rail, FTA-2005 Front Site, Troy Folding Rear Battle Site, FMCP-B5 Muzzle Device, .308 cal. / 7.62x51mm. Billet Machined 7075-T6 Lower w/ POF-USA "Ambi-Bolt Release Lever", Timney Drop-In 4 Lbs. Single Stage Trigger, Tango Down Battle Grip, Magpul "CTR" retractable Buttstock w/ mil spec tube. FTA-2005 Front site. MSRP $2275

P-308-16-TROY-CF-308-CARBINE - Semi-Auto Integral-Key Bolt Carrier, Billet Machined 7075-T6 upper, 16.5" Continuous Fluted Barrel, C.R.O.S., Troy Ind.Mid-Length Rail, Ladder Rail Covers, FTA-2005 Front Site, Troy Folding Rear Battle Site, FMCP-B5 Muzzle Device, .308 cal. / 7.62x51mm. Billet Machined 7075-T6 Lower w/ POF-USA "Ambi-Bolt Release Lever", Timney Drop-In 4 Lbs. Single Stage Trigger, Tango Down Battle Grip, Magpul "CTR" Buttstock w/ mil spec tube. MSRP $2200

P-308-16-MRR-CF-308-RECON - Semi-Auto Integral-Key Bolt Carrier, M.R.R.(Modular Railed Receiver) Billet Machined Upper 7075-T6, 16.5" Std. Fluted Barrel, C.R.O.S., M.R.R. Slim Extended Full-Length Rail, Ergo Ladder Rail Covers, FTA-2005 Front Site, Troy Folding Rear Battle Site, FMC-B3 Muzzle Device, .308 cal. / 7.62x51mm. Billet Machined 7075-T6 Lower w/ POF-USA "Ambi-Bolt Release Lever" & Integrated Oversized Trigger Guard, Timney Drop-In Single Stage 4 Lbs Trigger, Tango Down Battle Grip, Magpul "CTR" Buttstock w/ mil spec tube. MSRP $ 2325

P-308-20-MRR-CF-308-SPR - Semi-Auto Integral-Key Bolt Carrier, M.R.R (Modular Railed Receiver) Billet Machined 7075-T6 Upper, 20" Continuous Fluted Barrel, C.R.O.S., M.R.R. Slim Extended Full-Length Rail, Ergo Ladder Rail Covers, FTA-2005 Front Site, Troy Folding Rear Battle Site, FMC-B3 Muzzle Device, .308 cal. / 7.62x51mm. Billet Machined 7075-T6 Lower w/ POF-USA "Ambi-Bolt Release Lever" & Integrated Oversized Trigger Guard, Timney Drop-in Single Stage 4 lbs Trigger, Tango Down Battle Grip, Magpul Precision Rifle Stock. MSRP $2400.

And here's a pic of the Troy rail posted on TOS by POF in January. Looks great to me. Hopefully they still plan to offer it, but there's no way to know since POF went dead silent in early April on that thread:

[sproc]

Originally Posted by Paul Cataldo

I have been a bit leary of buying an LWRC rifle, due to some of the info I've received from very reliable names in the industry, but I honestly realize that nothing is etched in stone, and LWRC could end up proving themselves very well. At least LWRC has a nice rail that appeals to me. Maybe I should start looking at the LWRC's again perhaps??? Truth be known, I'd RATHER own a POF rifle.

The only negative I've heard about LWRC as a company was during the .499 group buy and various issues with the previous management. Since the new management from the Grenadier Precision merger took over, I've heard nothing but good. And I've never heard any negative info on their rifles. That ( in addition to me being convinced they have a better, more reliable system) led to me placing an order for an LWRC recently (I don't have it yet, so I can't comment on it yet).

I recommend you spend some time over at the LWRC forums. There's a lot of good information on their design, and it's clear they are very responsive to customers, including being active on their own forum. If nothing else, watch their video.

Regarding piston versus DI, that's a personal call, of course. I went that way because I want at least one gun that I feel confident would run and run over a long period of time even under the worst of circumstances. The price for an LWRC M6 is about only $100 more than a Colt LE6920 and probably less than a Sabre. But if the alternative is a Stag and you don't care about 1/7 barrels and such, I admit the premium is pretty high. So I'll probably but a Stag, too, to make it all even out. :-)

[ABNINF]

Sproc, I was referring to the 5.56 versions. Are they going to offer uppers in 5.56 that will take other RIS's without having to machine them? I hope so. I was hoping to be able to get one that would accept different RIS's namely KAC's since I have an extra one laying around. They told me via email in Feb that their RIS was the only one that would fit naturally, and that any others would need to be machined in order to fit. It was a deal breaker for me. Since the proprietary uppers are bulky. Huskydog's post gives me hope though. I'm kind of on a limited budget on my next AR build, so I'm trying to keep costs down, and I don't know any good armorers in the local area.

[AR15barrels]

Originally Posted by ABNINF

Sproc, I was referring to the 5.56 versions. Are they going to offer uppers in 5.56 that will take other RIS's without having to machine them? I hope so. I was hoping to be able to get one that would accept different RIS's namely KAC's since I have an extra one laying around. They told me via email in Feb that their RIS was the only one that would fit naturally, and that any others would need to be machined in order to fit. It was a deal breaker for me. Since the proprietary uppers are bulky. Huskydog's post gives me hope though. I'm kind of on a limited budget on my next AR build, so I'm trying to keep costs down, and I don't know any good armorers in the local area.

It was $50 to do the fitting to the troy rail.
If that's a deal breaker in order to have a rail system that you like properly fit on a piston gun, then piston guns are not for you.

[ABNINF]

Originally Posted by AR15barrels

It was $50 to do the fitting to the troy rail.
If that's a deal breaker in order to have a rail system that you like properly fit on a piston gun, then piston guns are not for you.

If that's all it's gonna cost, then that's not so bad, I'm just gonna have find a good armorer/ machinist. If anyone knows a good one in the Killeen/Waco/ Austin area I'd appreciate it.

[Razorhunter]

Gentleman,
I'm still trying to determine WHICH brand of Piston AR to go with.
-LWRC
-POF
-OR, possibly wait for the Hk, or even the LMT, which has been made, but not released.

Does ANYONE here know the differences between these gas piston designs? Mainly, referring to the LWRC and the POF, since they are available, or will be real soon.

I just want to buy the highest quality system, and I realize they are all relatively new, but I figure someone's got a little more info on how they are made, and which one might be better.
Anyhow, regardless, I would like to know what it is about LWRC's piston design, that I have heard is no good?
I have heard several people say the LWRC system is not as good as the POF system, but I'm wondering if this is all BS, or if there is some merit to it all?

Anyone here own BOTH an LWRC AND POF?? (or any other brand(s) for that matter?)
I'm now super interested in the new LMT piston rifle, but I have no idea IF or WHEN it will be available???

[Stickman]

There is more than just LMT coming out.

[Voodoochild]

Originally Posted by Stickman

There is more than just LMT coming out.

Such as? And I assume you will post your infamous upside down pictures of your piston rifle when you build it.

[Razorhunter]

Well I've spoken to Tina at Specialized Armament, and the Colt LE1020 won't even start production until 2008, and that could ALWAYS get pushed back even FURTHER.
Aside from the Colt, there is talk of Hk starting production here in the U.S. of the Hk 416/417 as well. However, that is apparently 2008 as well.
Again, this is what I've heard from fairly reliable sources in the know, but of course, nothing is etched in stone.
I know of no other gas piston prospects other than the companies mentioned already in this thread.
Who else is there Stickman??????


I would like to hear more technical info from people in the know, in regards to LWRC vs POF vs Hk vs LMT....
I want to know if there is ANY reason I should NOT buy an LWRC or a POF?????
I would absolutely kill to find someone who has taken pictures of all the systems, and done even an amatuer comparison test between the current gas piston rifles... IF however, it's too early for all that, then I would love to at least get some info on which system might be the best design...
If I weren't in the middle of remodeling my entire house right now, I'd buy a POF and an LWRC (and any other gas piston system as soon as it's available), and I'd do the side by side comparison testing.
I would then start a thread to inform all those interested with good UP CLOSE DETAILED pics with GOOD LIGHTING for all to see....
Damn I cannot wait for the day this is done, either by myself, or someone else... I figured after seeing all you guys who own 20-something DI guns, someone would HAD to have got their hands on a POF AND an LWRC by now....