Glock AD GSW at Match

[M4Fundi]

Saw this get posted on the S&W Forum thought it was interesting to think about. Not bashing Glocks, just something to be careful of...
The OP was asking about if it was possible to have a thumb mounted safety put on his M&P after he witnessed this during a match to his buddy.

OP said

I have a gun with no safeties except the cantilever on the trigger, after a friend shot himself with a Glock I am wondering if I want to carry a striker fired gun especially after I put in the Apex sear.

I am used to a 1911 gun so an external safety manipulation to me on the draw is second nature.

Here is how much penetration you can get with a 9mm FMJ in the thigh out above the knee, back in the calf, out again above the jack boot.


It was in an action match, he shot the handgun and reholstered into a Serpa clone type holster and got some T-Shirt into the holster, he transitioned to his M-16 and when he took the first step, the shirt pulled taught and pulled the trigger. The gun cycled and reloaded another round in the holster, had it been the Glock 18 on full auto it would have ate his leg, or a duty round rather than FMJ.

[nickdrak]

Sounds like an odd bunch of events which culminated into this horrible incident.

What exactly is a "Serpa clone type holster"???

It sounds odd to me that a stage would require that you start shooting your pistol, and then transition to your rifle?

I would be interested to see exactly how the stage was set up for clarification.

[mark5pt56]

All Glock matches are run "cold" You load in the work space and start at one of two approved ready positions, whiich none of have the loaded weapon pointed in the direction this "guy" had his. No Glock matches(actual Glock matches) have anything with transitions. You also clear and safe before you go to holster or stow the pistol. Plain and simple two people f'ed up here.

Op---choose your rig and -"keep your finger off the trigger and outside of the trigger guard until you are on target and made the decision to fire"

I'm not defending the Serpa at all, I use it because I'm "forced" to. If I had a choice it would be an ALS. However, if you actually place your finger like you are supposed to on the latch, it won't go into the trigger guard. You "lay" it against the body of the holster and the finger pad on the latch---not angled and pointed in with the tip on it.

[chuckman]

Sounds like an odd bunch of events which culminated into this horrible incident.

In performance improvement/quality improvement they call this "the swiss cheese effect." All the random holes line up just right and something (usually not good) results.

[SHIVAN]

Why people wear loose fitting clothes between the gun and the holster is always a mystery to me. I wear a t-shirt, tucked in, and an over shirt that is long enough that I must move it far enough above the gun in order to even see, or get to the holster. Which means the reverse is also true. I must clear the concealment shirt completely, in order to re-holster the gun, so it's a deliberate move to get it up and out of the way. It might be a little slower, but it offers three advantages I can think of:

1) Concealed means concealed.
2) No chance of me putting shirt back in my holster with the gun unless I get completely ate up with a dumbass.
3) I can conceal more things, like a light, extra mags, a bigger gun like a G17 or 1911.

I also believe that people are way too quick back into the holster anyway. Training, or competition, mental scar? I'd rather have the gun out for a second more than necessary if there are threats around, and maybe needing another round.

Still not clear why any match would have you transition from handgun to long gun. If you had an M16, you'd be using an M16 first and for as long as possible. Sounds like a retarded stage, unless I am missing something.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

This sucks but it makes me feel no less safe with my glock. Sounds like a whole bunch of avoidable mistakes to me. In combat everything is taped, tied secured so you dont get snags you dont loose stuff you need to survive. Competition should be no diffrent you still traning for combat any way you look at it and we train as we fight!

Tuck in your shirt

[MarshallDodge]

I also believe that people are way too quick back into the holster anyway. Training, or competition, mental scar? I'd rather have the gun out for a second more than necessary if there are threats around, and maybe needing another round.

I totally agree. Whenever I train newbies I instruct them that the gun can come out quick with the booger hook against the frame but when the threat is over you have all the time in the world to put the gun away. There is nothing wrong with looking down at your holster and making sure it is clear before re-holstering.

[Irish]

Looks painful. Do you have a link to the original thread? I'm sure there are more details there.

[rob_s]

Looks painful. Do you have a link to the original thread? I'm sure there are more details there.

I would like this link as well to share with my club.

[rob_s]

Why people wear loose fitting clothes between the gun and the holster is always a mystery to me.

Many folks do, and many of them still run into issues. Wife-beater or UA shirt under an un-tucked polo. Under shirt gets a little loose from repeated drawing and holstering, and they do not notice it when they go to holster.

Still not clear why any match would have you transition from handgun to long gun. If you had an M16, you'd be using an M16 first and for as long as possible. Sounds like a retarded stage, unless I am missing something.

I don't believe he was transitioning that way. It sounds like he was doing the same thing we do, which is load and make ready the pistol and holster, then load and make ready the carbine. He started out shooting the carbine and then took a step which pulled the holster and shirt in opposite directions and he got shot.


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IMHO this was a failing of the SO. While I wouldn't go so far as to say it was his fault, I will say that he failed in his duties. In my experience perhaps at best 10% of the SOs and ROs in IDPA and USPSA are actually qualified to perform that job. I don't mean that they haven't had the class, I just mean that their personal skillsets, personality, and intelligence level is not sufficient to the task at hand. The problem is that the main criteria for being chosen as a safety officer is all too often simply willingness to perform the job.

In this case the SO should have been watching the shooter holster and he should have stopped him from holstering with a shirt that slipped down inside the holster.