Final Report = "Fire To Destruction Test of U.S. M4A1 Carbine & M16A2 Rife Barrel(s)"

dpast32 · #1 08-06-10, 09:36

Hello Guy's,

I happened across this, Final Report = "Fire To Destruction Test of U.S. M4A1 Carbine & M16A2 Rife Barrel(s)" .pdf document recently, & thought that others may be interested in reading it. Being from September 1996 it is somewhat dated, though still interesting nonetheless.

Regards, dpast32

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA317929

whiterabbit05 · #2 08-06-10, 09:48

Thanks. Wish the pictures in the document were clearer.

Complication · #3 08-06-10, 10:10

There's video here:
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...and-m4a1-guns/

Part 1of that 2-article series is here: http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...standard-arms/

And, for those interested, another 3 NYTimes articles on the M16/M4:
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...he-m-16-rifle/
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...eats-up-again/
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...e-reliability/

Complication · #4 08-06-10, 10:14

Yes, in the above video the barrel turns red hot, wilts, and explodes.

Yes, in the above video the range catches on fire.

Yes, it's freaking awesome.

pilotguyo540 · #5 08-06-10, 16:41

That was totally wicked!!!

It was really cool to watch things progress in the second video showing colts new heavy barrel.
smoking,
erratic ejection pattern
fire (foregrips)
more fire
serious pitch change
bolt action operations

wake.joe · #6 08-06-10, 17:01

It's interesting to me that the M203 notch did not cause any issues in the second test.

bkb0000 · #7 08-06-10, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake.joe

It's interesting to me that the M203 notch did not cause any issues in the second test.

the barrel gets the hottest about 3-4" from the bolt face. add to it the fact that this is where the barrel is thinnest, and that it's bearing all the weight of the rest of the barrel assembly, and the fore of the barrel wont ever get a chance to blow.

Bob Reed · #8 08-06-10, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkb0000

the barrel gets the hottest about 3-4" from the bolt face. add to it the fact that this is where the barrel is thinnest, and that it's bearing all the weight of the rest of the barrel assembly, and the fore of the barrel wont ever get a chance to blow.

And that is 100% proof why the Government Profile is ass-backwards!

bkb0000 · #9 08-06-10, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Reed

And that is 100% proof why the Government Profile is ass-backwards!

either that or its proof that it's not wise to ram 18 magazines through your weapon full auto without pause... i havent decided which im going with, though.

how many more full auto magazines can you get through an hbar before failure? you're well past the point of cookoff by that time.. and it seems to me that the mark of "too much" should fall somewhere below cookoff. the weapon is out of the fight at that point either way, so what difference does it make if it can handle another three magazines before kB?

Bubba FAL · #10 08-06-10, 21:52

Do enough mag dumps and you'll blow the barrel of any firearm not equipped with auxiliary cooling. I know a Marine that did this (unintentionally) with a BAR...

...at Chosin - trying to keep the Chicoms at bay.

eternal24k · #11 08-06-10, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkb0000

either that or its proof that it's not wise to ram 18 magazines through your weapon full auto without pause... i havent decided which im going with, though.

how many more full auto magazines can you get through an hbar before failure? you're well past the point of cookoff by that time.. and it seems to me that the mark of "too much" should fall somewhere below cookoff. the weapon is out of the fight at that point either way, so what difference does it make if it can handle another three magazines before kB?

i think the above video had about 400 rounds before the gas tube ruptured

bkb0000 · #12 08-06-10, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal24k

i think the above video had about 400 rounds before the gas tube ruptured

the ones in the test referenced all had more than that.

but whatever the amount, if the barrel is hot enough to deform enough to rupture, assuming the barrel is sound to begin with, the weapon is already well past practical usability to the soldier it's issued to. i suppose in a desperate, last blaze of glory, he can continue to drive magazines into it, assuming he's even carrying that many, while its cooking off... but it just seems pretty unrealistic.

we've had a few very intense firefights in our current conflicts, and barrel ruptures in the field are exceedingly rare. i just don't know if there's a "problem" that needs addressing, with the M4A1.

jklaughrey · #13 08-06-10, 23:05

By the looks of it, I guess I will stop at 595 rounds on my Colt M4 Carbine then. LOL

wild_wild_wes · #14 08-07-10, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkb0000

it's not wise to ram 18 magazines through your weapon full auto without pause

That is because it is a carbine, not a machine gun.

Complication · #15 08-07-10, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild_wild_wes

That is because it is a carbine, not a machine gun.

It's not wise to put that many rounds through a machine gun without pause, either.

Machine gun barrels aren't made from fairy dust and unicorn farts**, steel is still steel. A machine gun barrel might be built to withstand that kind of torture for a little longer, but I can guarantee you'll kill the gun just as dead if you unleash that volume of fire without pause or without switching out barrels.

**Except Noveske's

wild_wild_wes · #16 08-07-10, 17:26

Do'h....aren't Noveske chromed barrels essentially M249 barrels?

Complication · #17 08-07-10, 17:29

On at least some of their guns, yes--the same steel is used.

bkb0000 · #18 08-07-10, 17:37

they're CHF from the same steel the SAW uses, and lined to SAW spec. i imagine a noveske N4L barrel would probably last longer under sustained FA fire. i'd really like to see how much longer, but it would only be for curiosity. the fact of the matter is, as Wes said- machineguns do not carbines make.

ROGOPGEAR · #19 08-07-10, 18:25

wonder if it might blow a little earlier in the sun and heat of Afghanistan or Iraq, rather than the dark, cool, air conditioned, ventilated firing range?

FromMyColdDeadHand · #20 08-07-10, 19:25

How did the IAR do?