1-4x Optic Groupings?

XxMerlinxX · #1 09-01-10, 21:19

What sort of groups are you guys getting and at what distance are you getting them with your 1-4x? I'm wondering if I've set my expectations a little high and would like a benchmark to check my own groups against.

Exiledviking · #2 09-02-10, 01:13

Love my TR24R. See below.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60354

I think a lot of it comes back on the gun and the shooter
If you have a AR that you are able shoot groups between 1-2" at 100 yards, I don't think you're giving up anything with a TR24.

beavo451 · #3 09-02-10, 16:56

TR-24G here

Roughly 3" group at 100 yards with 55 gr Monarch soft points launched out of a 12.5" Colt barrel and using the magazine as a monopod.

Singlestack Wonder · #4 09-02-10, 17:19

TR24R

DPMS LR308AP4, 16" barrel, 147grain, 3/4"@100 yards

nickdrak · #5 09-02-10, 17:24

I think an EXCEPTIONAL shooter with a 1-4x variable power scope, a quality charome lined or Match grade SS barrel, and match ammo should be able to consistently shoot 5 round 1" groups @ 100 yards from a stable supported prone position.

I think depending on your skill level, 2" groups are a reasonable expectation for a low power variable scope assuming a quality host weapon and quality ammo.

Over the past year that I have had my current patrol rifle set-up: BCM 16" Mid-Length Hammer Forged barrel with a free-float handguard, and a Trijicon TR24G 1-4x scope, I have been able to only twice squeeze out a 1" group using match grade ammo at 100 yards. My 5 round, 100 yards groupings with this set-up are typically around 2". Im completely happy with that.

Belmont31R · #6 09-02-10, 18:21

My 16" Stealth with a Short-Dot usually shoots around 1"-1.5" groups at 100 with match ammo. It likes SSA 77GR 5.56 SMK's and Hornady Match Training 75GR OTM's. Suprisingly it shoots the training ammo better than the regular match or TAP. The last time I had it out I shot a 1.1" group with the training ammo (10rd group). Anyways thats off bags front and rear with light wind.

With a CL barrel I think 2" groups would be doing pretty good.

Id also suggest trying some different targets. I know I shoot better with some targets than others just because I can keep the dot/reticle in the same place each shot. Thats hard to do with a giant circle. I prefer a 1" grid back ground with 4 2" squares and a 1" dot in the middle.

nickdrak · #7 09-02-10, 19:29

Belmont provides some good info above.

I also think it is important to draw a distinction between your "Best group EVER" and typical accuracy.

1-4x variable power scopes where never intended for benchrest accuracy testing. Don't get too wrapped up with trying to get all of your rounds through the same hole with a 4x scope.

JHC · #8 09-02-10, 20:43

Hey, we were running short on Black Hills ammo so my son just shot 3 shot groups. Scope is a Nikon 1-4X. About $273 from Midway.
This Recce has shot a lot of 3 and 5 shot groups like this at 100 and 200.

ICANHITHIMMAN · #9 09-02-10, 20:54

1/4" with my TAO1NSN, Wilson combat UT15 and Black Hills 55g remanufacture FMJ at 200 yards.

shootist~ · #10 09-02-10, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICANHITHIMMAN

1/4" with my TAO1NSN, Wilson combat UT15 and Black Hills 55g remanufacture FMJ at 200 yards.

One shot groups do make small holes, don't they?

nickdrak · #11 09-02-10, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICANHITHIMMAN

1/4" with my TAO1NSN, Wilson combat UT15 and Black Hills 55g remanufacture FMJ at 200 yards.

How many rounds were in your 200yard 1/4" group?

Dennis · #12 09-03-10, 12:25

I was having problems getting good groups with my TR24G triangle too! I guess it's not my fault

I was getting 1.5-2" groups with match ammo. I can usually do better with open sights but who likes using those things?

However, the TR24G is fast and rocks up close and is definitely MinuteOfMan out to any effective range.

Dennis.

Utah1 · #13 09-24-10, 11:13

When scopes became popular for hunting in the western sates after WWII the 4X was almost a standard. Thousands of Elk, Deer and other game were taken at all pratical ranges using a 4X. It is not a target scope but in the field it is pretty good.

ICANHITHIMMAN · #14 09-24-10, 21:58

Sorry for the late responce I shoot 5 round groups at 200 for all my load testing.

I did not shoot the groups rapid fire just one round at a time. The wilson combat was one hell of a shooter.

The ACOGS are great and I have 20/10 vision and lots of trigger time.

ucrt · #15 09-24-10, 23:03

Like Belmont said, I think the target plays an important part in getting a small group. I print targets with a substantial black donut ring with a white center and match the size of the white center to the crosshair, range, etc. I make the targets to precisely fit the crosshairs at a particualr range.

When I center the crosshairs, I want to see 4 evenly shaped "pieces of white pie" around the crosshairs. this is how I "sight-in" (or calibrate) my sights. When I shoot my RDS, I make a target that will give me a little white ring around the red dot with a thick black ring around everything. It makes it easy to center and repeat.

I always found it difficult at best to accurately shoot with black crosshairs on a black bullseye. Now, for just shooting, I may use black, red, orange, white bullseye targets because that is “practical” ... but to sight-in, I want a maximum contrast between target and crosshairs or red dot.

Below are a couple of targets I found to show what I mean.

.

ucrt · #16 09-24-10, 23:47

To finish my post...

I think a 4X scope with the right ammo, proper rests, a good target and of course a good barrel can shoot exceptional groups.

To me, people think that magnification is the "big" contributor to accuracy using a scope. I think the single biggest improvement using a scope is having the sight and the target in the same focal plane.

Now, this is just me and I ain't no marksman but I have experimented with open sights, a 1X scope and at 24X scope at 100-yards. With the 1X scope my group size is reduced by about 50% from open sights, 4" to about 2" . With a 24X scope, my group reduced about an additional 40% or down to 1-1/4". Important Note: I was shooting a target specific to the reticle or open sight. I know this isn't very scientific but I think it makes a point that the same focal plane benefit of a scope is the biggest improvement - at least to me (that's my unscientific disclaimer).

So, with all of that said, I think you could easily shoot some great groups with a 4X scope. I'd like to see what Molon thinks about all of this.

But maybe it's just me...

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ucrt · #17 09-25-10, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX

What sort of groups are you guys getting and at what distance are you getting them with your 1-4x? I'm wondering if I've set my expectations a little high and would like a benchmark to check my own groups against.

=================================

What kind of groups were you getting?

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99HMC4 · #18 09-27-10, 00:00

Ive come to think that the optic should have no effect on group size, only POI. Doesnt really matter if your using a 10X or a 3X aim in the same spot everytime and if the group sucks, its the shooter (well except for really crappy gear to a point). That being said, I hold 1.5" groups with my specter DR @100 on 4X or 1X with even PMC ammo in my SCAR....

Canonshooter · #19 09-27-10, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99HMC4

Ive come to think that the optic should have no effect on group size, only POI. Doesnt really matter if your using a 10X or a 3X aim in the same spot everytime and if the group sucks, its the shooter (well except for really crappy gear to a point). That being said, I hold 1.5" groups with my specter DR @100 on 4X or 1X with even PMC ammo in my SCAR....

I agree - providing you can discern the target well enough through the optic to aim precisely at the same point every time.

For example, a traditional "duplex" crosshair is usually fairly easy to align on a typical NRA type round target and achieve consistent grouping. A sight with a 3 or 4 MOA dot in the center, not so much.