Setting up an E&E bag

HES · #1 09-25-10, 22:54

Ok so the wife and I are "discussing" the need for an E&E (escape and evade) bag Vs. a BOB. The current thinking is that an E&E bag is to be carried in your vehicle. If TSHTF it is the bag you will use to get from where ever you are when it happens (work, the mall, etc..) to home. Once you are home you will either bug in or bug out.

We've been able to break the questions down into two categories 1) bag type & size and 2) contents.

We're differing on bag type and size. I'm going with the idea of a small civilian backpack or messenger bag with bare minimum provisions to get you through 2 days of walking (12 to 24 miles). My train of thought is to keep your load light for the walk, endure the discomfort, and blend in with the other masses. She says go large or go home, more is better, and be prepared. I think she is making a huge mistake

Next up is what to carry. I'm figuring about 2L of water, compass, space blanket, bug spray, IFAK, knife, pistol, ammo and that is it. She wants to carry a lot more like a poncho, fire starters, etc... Again my train of thought is that you will have to walk a long way, why carry all that crap with you?

So what are your thoughts on an E&E bag

mikeross506 · #2 09-25-10, 23:09

In my opinion, there is a huge difference between E&E and Bugging Out. In the case of E&E, it needs to be as light as possible to facilitate speed and also a low profile. You life is depending on your ability to avoid detection until you can arrive at a safe destination. Once you have ensured safety your concerns can turn towards a more long term sustaining.

A pistol with a few extra mags, gps, IFAK, camel back that can be worn on the move, and some high protein energy bars. (something to chew on, each person needs approx 2 liters of water per day ust to maintain.)

Blstr88 · #3 09-26-10, 01:28

How far do you work from home?

Lets assume "worst case" and you're AT work when it happens, and you need to start your walk from there to get home.

Light and small is good, but if you've got enough for a 12-24 hour hike, and its 48-60 hours from your work to home, it won't do you much good.

Id say estimate how many hours from work to home, and build a bag with the required equipment to cover that walk...whatever it ends up being.

Iraqgunz · #4 09-26-10, 01:35

In Iraq my E&E bag consisted of a small bag that had extra mags, smoke grenades and pencil flares. I also kept a man dress in it, extra cash, bottle of water, Cliff bar(s) and photocopies of my passport and CAC card.

It's purpose was to have something with me in the event that we needed to pop smoke from a vehicle or a site where I was at.

Bugging out is completely different. You will want to take as much as you can carry and possibly have it broke down. For example footlockers with ammo, food, weapons, etc... and then a subload (pack or E&E) bag in the event that you have to bail again.

mikeross506 · #5 09-26-10, 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blstr88

How far do you work from home?

Lets assume "worst case" and you're AT work when it happens, and you need to start your walk from there to get home.

Light and small is good, but if you've got enough for a 12-24 hour hike, and its 48-60 hours from your work to home, it won't do you much good.

Id say estimate how many hours from work to home, and build a bag with the required equipment to cover that walk...whatever it ends up being.

A scenario that allows you to simply walk home is E&E. To Escape and Evade you must be able to move quickly or whoever is following you will have easy work catching your trail. Breaking contact and securing distance from the threat is an absolute priority. You don't need to have enough luxuries to be comfortable. Just survive.

CDDM416 · #6 09-26-10, 08:39

I call mine a Get Home Bag.
I have a Camelbak Ambush 500, It is small but holds what I think is enough.
The blatter holds 3 liters, I dont keep water in the bladder. I have two 1 1/2 liter bottles, if I need to go, Ill pour them into the blatter.
There are two pockets which hold 2 spare mags, a small FAK, some energy(snack) bars, a flashlight, and a few other thing that I may need.

Blstr88 · #7 09-26-10, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeross506

A scenario that allows you to simply walk home is E&E. To Escape and Evade you must be able to move quickly or whoever is following you will have easy work catching your trail. Breaking contact and securing distance from the threat is an absolute priority. You don't need to have enough luxuries to be comfortable. Just survive.

Agreed, but the distance WILL determine how much you carry. Im not suggesting you bring your PSP and 14 games to play along the way...

But if the walk is less than 6 hours, realistically you could say you'd be better off travelling with nothing at all. 6-24 or so, you'll want some water/food at the very least. 24-60 youll need a little more...Im not suggesting anyone pack "luxuries"...but figuring out the calories/water required for the trip and getting a bag to fit the required amount should be the goal.

WHERE you're located plays a part in that too. I'll need a little less water living in the Northeast than someone in the south-west...however, if its winter I may want to pack some dry socks, as where that guy in Arizona wont need those. (just an example obviously)...

mikeross506 · #8 09-26-10, 10:28

[QUOTE I may want to pack some dry socks, as where that guy in Arizona wont need those. (just an example obviously)...[/quote]

Hehe. I don't know. After a few trips to the Box, dry socks are HUGE on my list. Nothing worse than beating feet all day with soggy boots! Never forget, by day 3 during the the initial battle for An Najaf my socks were so rank that I opted to go without them. HUGE mistake!

Von Rheydt · #9 09-26-10, 10:54

Old British Army saying:

"Live out of your rucksack, fight in your webbing, survive in your smock".

The inference is that you carry enough on your person in your smock to survive or E&E. My E&E kit, that I still carry when I travel as a civilian fits in one of the old decontamination kit tins.

As a soldier my tin was a tobacco tin, this was put into a pair of fresh socks along with a packet of isotonic drink powder and an 8 * 10 photocopy of a map of the AO and a goolie chit, this bundle was then put into a ziploc baggie and elastic bandded. This bundle was then put into another ziploc and taped down tight with electrical tape.

Tin contents are pretty personal, basically what you think will help you survive: small multitool; compass; fish hooks; needle; thread; fire steel; potassium permanganate; tylenol; etc, etc.

Fresh socks, well you don't know how long you will be out there.

Isotonic drink, get it down ASAP so that you have the energy to move quickly at the front end of your E&E.

Photocopy of map, well no point being lost if you don't know where you are going.

Goolie chit. Your goolies are your testicales. So a promisory note written in the local language stating that if you are delivered alive and intact to friendly forces the finder will be rewarded with many camels.

1st ziploc, acts as waterproofing and also a 1 qt water carrier.

Elastic bands, all sorts of useful purposes including damn fine tinder for starting hard to light fires.

2nd ziploc bag, this is the packaging for the whole thing. If you can not puncture it when unwrapping at time of need then it too can be a useful water carrier.

Electrical tape/duct tape, good for wound wrapping if needed. Generally though you wrap the bundle tight to reduce its bulk and protect the bundle from punctures that allow moisture in.

In the military the bundle is stashed away where it will always be available ... not in a rucksack or belt pouch, it is carried on the person. As a civvy, carry it in your briefcase, car, under your motorcycle seat, desk drawer, college locker wherever it may be useful.

HES · #10 09-26-10, 11:45

Keep the ideas coming but keep in mind the scenario I am envisioning is that you work in a medium to largeish city, live in the 'burbs or further out. Your commute is anywhere between 12 and 24 miles. You will be navigating your way home by walking out of the city and through the burbs. I am figuring travel time at about 12 miles a day @ about 3 MPH. Is that fast enough or should more distance be covered Navigation shouldn't be a problem unless you are new to the area.

Von Rheydt · #11 09-26-10, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by HES

Keep the ideas coming but keep in mind the scenario I am envisioning is that you work in a medium to largeish city, live in the 'burbs or further out. Your commute is anywhere between 12 and 24 miles. You will be navigating your way home by walking out of the city and through the burbs. I am figuring travel time at about 12 miles a day @ about 3 MPH. Is that fast enough or should more distance be covered Navigation shouldn't be a problem unless you are new to the area.

Where you are in TPA its nice and flat so 3mph is more than feasible. You should be able to trot 12 miles in 3 hours and 24 miles in 8 to 10 hours......depending on time of year.

As with everything you should plan ahead. Not just thinking about it but actually doing a full rehearsal of your planned route. This will show up weak points and highlight potential problems and fixes.

Blstr88 · #12 09-26-10, 15:39

Depending on the shape you're in, 20-22 miles a day on flat terrain should be quite easy. My uncle and I spend a week on the AT each summer and we routinely do 14-18 miles a day, with ~30 pound packs. And thats not far, some of the better hikers do 20+ a day easily.

Again, depending on the shape you're in, and of course the climate (extreme heat or cold will slow you down), you should be able to do that in 1 day...especially with very little weighing you down. Not to mention the bullets flying over your head will probably speed you up

cbyrd556 · #13 09-27-10, 17:44

I have a Maxpedition Verispak for my get home bag. It carries more than you expect and since it carries like a messenger bag it allows for maneuverability. My trek would be 16 miles from work through some "hoods" so needless to say I have 4 spare mags in there with my subcompact. Water is my concern which I can only cary 2 20oz bottles of water comfortably in the pack. I need to look at a Camelbak I can keep in the car with it. If you don't mind the man purse look then check out the Maxpeditions for sure.

MTR7 · #14 09-27-10, 18:01

Well I have no mill. experience so i am coming from a civie view. Everything mentioned makes great sense and is well worth having. But what do you have with you for footwear? I am an outside salesman in NOVA in and around Wash D.C.. If thing ever get real odd here I have a long walk ahead of me to get to my house or a stop over with a friend.
I keep a good pair of boots and two pairs of socks in my trunk at all times as I live in dress or sort off dress shoes M through F. I have had to walk a mile or so before in my work foot ware because of a dead/ broken car and it sucks unless you are on pavement.

It was a cheep prep as I own the boots and socks, they just live in the trunk not my home closet.

Also, heavy duty space blanket and a lighter or a fire starter of your choice should be worth their weight.
Regards
Matt

SMC Nubby · #15 09-27-10, 19:21

As far as packs go, ditch the messenger bag. I use a large bike courier's messenger bag daily for computer and miscellany I need for my job and it serves its purpose well there. However, I would not want to hike any considerable distances or length of time with it on. All of the weight is on one shoulder. I would suggest you go to REI and grab a day pack made by a reputable company (Gregory, Arc'teryx, North Face, Osprey, etc.). These packs are light years ahead of many military backpacks because hikers understand how to pack weight and don't attach a bunch of pouches externally via molle. Getting one of these packs will allow you to carry everything you need comfortably due to their cutting edge suspensions all while remaining a low profile, which would be pretty key.

I will add that I live out in the country in the foothills of Appalachia. Seeing a granola with a day pack is a fairly common sight around here, so that is what I would I go for. If I lived somewhere else, say a city, I'd rethink how I tried to blend in.

jwfuhrman · #16 09-29-10, 10:36

I work 7 miles from my home. The town we live in is a town of 10,000, but its a very close nit community. I dont even bother keeping anything but my G22 and 3 extra mags and some water in my car anymore because of how close to home I am, and even if SHTF, this community wouldnt erupt into chaos until the trash from other cities started filtering South or West towards us(Ft Wayne, IN 20 miles to the north 2nd largest city in Indiana, and Van Wert, Ohio 20 miles to the East, not exactly a city full of outstanding people).

I can make it home no problem, then I would be Bugging In, not Out(live on farm - 250acres).

Von Rheydt · #17 09-29-10, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTR7

Well I have no mill. experience so i am coming from a civie view. Everything mentioned makes great sense and is well worth having. But what do you have with you for footwear? I am an outside salesman in NOVA in and around Wash D.C.. If thing ever get real odd here I have a long walk ahead of me to get to my house or a stop over with a friend.
I keep a good pair of boots and two pairs of socks in my trunk at all times as I live in dress or sort off dress shoes M through F. I have had to walk a mile or so before in my work foot ware because of a dead/ broken car and it sucks unless you are on pavement.

It was a cheep prep as I own the boots and socks, they just live in the trunk not my home closet.

Also, heavy duty space blanket and a lighter or a fire starter of your choice should be worth their weight.
Regards
Matt

In the UK when there is a gridlock traffic jam, there is a gridlock traffic jam. These have been caused by anything from a snowstorm to a major toxic spill and even terrorist incidents, duration can be anything from a couple of hours to overnight. With that in mind most of the guys I know who are into bushcraft used to carry a kit in their cars at all times.

The kits more or less included:

Sleeping bags or blankets; first aid kit; something to cook on; a couple tins of chunky soup/stew; coffee kit; power bars; torch & extra batteries; change of clothes and boots suitable for wet and cold weather; toilet roll; folding shovel. A couple of bottles/quarts of water but you need to refresh these weekly.

I carried extra for the kids because I generally had to drop them at school which was 30 miles away. Mine used to fit in a sealed plastic storage box kept in the back of the vehicle.

Iraqgunz · #18 09-29-10, 20:46

Here is my thoughts. You are seriously under-estimating your fellow humans. They may be tight knit, but rest assured once the power goes out and people leave their comfort zones it will change.

Also, don't think for a minute that douchebags from those other cities aren't thinking about getting out of where they are and getting to somewhere "safer" like the suburbs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwfuhrman

I work 7 miles from my home. The town we live in is a town of 10,000, but its a very close nit community. I dont even bother keeping anything but my G22 and 3 extra mags and some water in my car anymore because of how close to home I am, and even if SHTF, this community wouldnt erupt into chaos until the trash from other cities started filtering South or West towards us(Ft Wayne, IN 20 miles to the north 2nd largest city in Indiana, and Van Wert, Ohio 20 miles to the East, not exactly a city full of outstanding people).

I can make it home no problem, then I would be Bugging In, not Out(live on farm - 250acres).

jwfuhrman · #19 09-29-10, 21:03

Oh I dont doubt that at all. Idk if my town is considered a suburb being 20+ miles away. We've had several natural disasters here, a "100 year flood" in 2003(Flood stage is 18ft.... River crested at 29.6ft ABOVE flood stage). Several tornado's, a nasty ice storm that left the entire region out of power for 12 days. Did have many problems.

But what I was getting at is, I don't need much to get home, from there, the only neighbors I have are immediate family and cousin's, all farmers as well. I live 5 miles North of town, in a very rural area.

Not saying its the safest place, but I know I can count on my neighbors (since, well they are immediate family) for other things.

Sure it may get a little crazy for some time, but its alot like the town from One Second After. We all band together in troubled times. The scum from the other cities a distance away, yea, not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

Here is my thoughts. You are seriously under-estimating your fellow humans. They may be tight knit, but rest assured once the power goes out and people leave their comfort zones it will change.

Also, don't think for a minute that douchebags from those other cities aren't thinking about getting out of where they are and getting to somewhere "safer" like the suburbs.

KYPD · #20 09-29-10, 22:38

After literally years of thought and experimentation, here is the kit I always carried in my my car. The last area in the US I used it was Los Angeles. I currently live in Tokyo and don't have a car. In any case, the trunk of a car can carry quite a bit of stuff you can choose to take with or leave behind when you must abandon it and resort to mare's shank. Options are good. Better to have it and not need it.

Even on the run and on foot, a human needs clothing, water, shelter, food, in that order of priority.

Clothing: What will you be wearing when the emergency arises? What will the weather be like? Will you be in the city or the sticks? To avoid detection, while avoiding fires, riots, road blocks, and debris, will you be forced to scramble through trainyards, climb fences, traverse the landfill or sneak through the woods? You can't know for sure. Include a pair of heavy pants, a good work shirt, heavy wool socks, a belt, sturdy broke-in boots, a hat, a sturdy coat, and a poncho. Bland earth colors are good, but camo might be bad under some circumstances. Store these in a black super-thick plastic lawn&garden bag, suck the air out with a vacuum, throw in some mothballs (the kind that won't explode) and seal it airtight. Will last a long time without rotting or mildewing.

Water: How much will you need? How hot will it be when the SHTF? How many people will be with you? You can't know for certain. I always carried a plastic 5 gal camping container (Coleman?) with two drops of bleach for gallon of water (not scented bleach), bungy corded inside the trunk. Will last a year. I carried 3 Camelbak bladders to carry the water if I had to abandon the car. You need a gallon a day in warm weather.

Shelter: Where/when will circumstances require you to lay low and hidden? What will the weather be like? You can't know for certain. A plastic tarp is cheap, light, and very useful. Don't forget some parachute cord to secure it.

Food: You don't need much. Water is critical, but not food. Power bars etc are good for when you go on foot. MRE's are nice. A few cans of chunky stew are a blessing. Don't need a stove.

Tools: An E-tool is essential for a car. The Glock is very lightweight. When sharpened, an E-tool becomes an excellent weapon. Ask the Russians. An axe is another tool that should be in every car, IMO.

Multitool: Nice to have.

First Aid Kit: Get a serious one. It could save your life.

Gotta have a backpack to carry it in. Shoulder bags get tiring very quickly, and can hurt your back when loaded up. You couldn't evade a hunter-killer team of 7 year olds if you break down.

Firearms: I have lots of guns including 3 high-end AR's and pistols, but I chose to keep a Winchester 98 with tritium iron sights, a Vickers sling, and 60 rounds of ammo in the trunk, protected like the clothes above. Mothballs also keep steel from rusting. A guy carrying a black plastic bag containing a light, slim lever action looks like he's carrying garbage, not a gun. Harmless appearance is a plus. 30-30 is plenty powerful, more available in an emergency than 223 or 308, it is not a military round (that alone can be a plus in some circumstances), and the appearance of the gun is less likely to get me in trouble in LA.

Two cents.