Daniel Defense pencil barrel complete rifles...

500grains · #1 09-28-10, 23:56

Looks like Daniel Defense pencil barrel complete rifles are arriving at dealers.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-872-danie...gth-rifle.aspx

TOrrock · #2 09-29-10, 00:06

Ooooh...daddy likes.

I was seriously considering one of the Colt 6720's, but if these are shipping.....much harder choice now.

Palmguy · #3 09-29-10, 00:09

Very nice. I wish the DD middy uppers were a little more commonplace...I haven't really seen those for sale that much if at all.

LONGBOWAH · #4 09-29-10, 01:43

The only thing I see "odd" about LW ("pencil") middies and LW ("pencil") is that they are counterproductive to a degree.

If you are going to build a lightweight (like I just did) then why get a thin barrel and put LONGER (read heavier) handguards on it especially when the benefits of a midlength are subjective at best?

Magsz · #5 09-29-10, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGBOWAH

The only thing I see "odd" about LW ("pencil") middies and LW ("pencil") is that they are counterproductive to a degree.

If you are going to build a lightweight (like I just did) then why get a thin barrel and put LONGER (read heavier) handguards on it especially when the benefits of a midlength are subjective at best?

Uh..what?

The idea behind shaving ounces off of a fighting or defensive rifle is that it is easier to A, haul for long periods and B, easier to maneuver from target to target. Less moving mass is generally easier to control.

EDIT: You clarified yourself. Thanks bud!

The benefits of the midlength are NOT subjective, it is PROVEN to be better than the carbine gas system in all barrel lengths over 14.5 inches.

Im going to go try and find the numbers to back that statement up now but i cannot for the life of me remember where i saw them on these boards.

500grains · #6 09-29-10, 11:16

They offer a carbine version for those who prefer it:

http://www.riflegear.com/p-871-danie...ine-rifle.aspx

Palmguy · #7 09-29-10, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGBOWAH

The only thing I see "odd" about LW ("pencil") middies and LW ("pencil") is that they are counterproductive to a degree.

If you are going to build a lightweight (like I just did) then why get a thin barrel and put LONGER (read heavier) handguards on it especially when the benefits of a midlength are subjective at best?

Counterproductive? How so? It depends on your perspective I guess, and your priorities. If job #1 is ultimate lightweight, then sure, maybe you want a carbine, maybe you want a shorter than 16" barrel, etc.

I'd disagree with the assertion that the benefits of a midlength over a carbine are "subjective at best". Even discounting reduced impulse/wear and tear/recoil/whatever, there are plainly obvious advantages such as a longer sight radius, increased real estate/more flexibility for accessories, increased room for hand placement which allows for better control, etc. If you want a midlength to begin with, saving weight where possible sure as hell ain't counterproductive.

Schulze · #8 09-29-10, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGBOWAH

If you are going to build a lightweight (like I just did) then why get a thin barrel and put LONGER (read heavier) handguards on it especially when the benefits of a midlength are subjective at best?

So you can have more room to grip the gun and put on your accessories. Carbine handguards get cramped with just a white light, depending on how you hold it, and how large your hands are.

LONGBOWAH · #9 09-29-10, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schulze

So you can have more room to grip the gun and put on your accessories. Carbine handguards get cramped with just a white light, depending on how you hold it, and how large your hands are.

Granted, but I think my point is still valid: you lightened the barrel but added more rail...so you didn't really go for a LW weapon, just a lighter one given all of the add ons.

And while I agree with all of the dwell, pressure, etc. arguements for the middy, there's really nothing wrong with a carbine/14.5" system...SO, since I wanted light, I went with a LW carbine (sans rail in fact).

bkb0000 · #10 09-29-10, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGBOWAH

Granted, but I think my point is still valid: you lightened the barrel but added more rail...so you didn't really go for a LW weapon, just a lighter one given all of the add ons.

And while I agree with all of the dwell, pressure, etc. arguements for the middy, there's really nothing wrong with a carbine/14.5" system...SO, since I wanted light, I went with a LW carbine (sans rail in fact).

it's not about rail length, it's about gas length. they made a lightweight carbine out of a more reliable system- the rail length is incidental to that, and necessary.

Stickman · #11 09-29-10, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGBOWAH

Granted, but I think my point is still valid: you lightened the barrel but added more rail...so you didn't really go for a LW weapon, just a lighter one given all of the add ons.

No, your argument makes no sense as you are fixating on a longer rail. Take the same length rail and swap in a lighter barrel, and the difference is apparent to the most novice of shooters (not saying you are one).

Longer rails allow for more options, including actually holding the weapon out farther, which is how I use my duty carbine on a regular basis. I feel cramped using a midlength rail, I would strongly prefer a 12" on my middy.

Marler5811 · #12 09-29-10, 14:57

We currently have 4 Lighweight Models Avaialble. The v2, v3, v4, and v5.

The DDM4v2 LW has a carbine length gas system with a Pinned F Marked FSB and an Omega X 7.0

The DDM4v3 LW has a midlength gas system with a Pinned F Marked FSB an Omega X 9.0

The DDM4v4 LW has a carbine length gas system with a Pinned Low Profile Gas Block and an Omega X 9.0 ran over the top.

The DDM4v5 LW has a midlength gas system with a Pinned Low Profile Gas Block and an Omega X 12.0 ran over the top.

All of these models come with a vertical grip, PMag, and Hard Case. A1.5 Fixed Rear Sight is standard on the v2 and v3. the v4 and v5 are available with and without Rail Mounted Fixed Front and Rear Sights.

S/F
Joe

jonconsiglio · #13 09-29-10, 17:16

You add about 5.5 ounces going from a 7" DD Lite rail to a 12" DD Lite rail.

I don't know about others, but for me and the guys I shoot with, having the longer rail gets our support hand out farther for more control. So, even if we added 5 or 6 ounces, we now have more control and it feels lighter on the move, in a sense.

Now, if you don't run lights, or other accessories and use you a magwell grip, then maybe that extra 5 or 6 ounces are counterproductive. For me, they allow better control.

armakraut · #14 09-29-10, 18:02

You guys going to be doing folding sights too pretty soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marler5811

We currently have 4 Lighweight Models Avaialble. The v2, v3, v4, and v5.

The DDM4v2 LW has a carbine length gas system with a Pinned F Marked FSB and an Omega X 7.0

The DDM4v3 LW has a midlength gas system with a Pinned F Marked FSB an Omega X 9.0

The DDM4v4 LW has a carbine length gas system with a Pinned Low Profile Gas Block and an Omega X 9.0 ran over the top.

The DDM4v5 LW has a midlength gas system with a Pinned Low Profile Gas Block and an Omega X 12.0 ran over the top.

All of these models come with a vertical grip, PMag, and Hard Case. A1.5 Fixed Rear Sight is standard on the v2 and v3. the v4 and v5 are available with and without Rail Mounted Fixed Front and Rear Sights.

S/F
Joe

Felix · #15 09-29-10, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marler5811

We currently have 4 Lighweight Models Avaialble. The v2, v3, v4, and v5.

....

S/F
Joe

A while back you guys had the URG sale going on, and unless I'm mistaking, there was a 14.5" mid-length lightweight offering. Im unable to find it on the site now (I've found the barrel). So I was wondering if you guys could put through custom orders or if you were planning on adding this variant to the DDM4 series.

ETA: The model Im refering to had a 9" Omega X rail

GermanSynergy · #16 09-29-10, 18:32

Very very nice. Definitely need to pick one up.

TehLlama · #17 09-29-10, 19:16

A DD 12.0FSP rail is pretty close to the stock barrel nut with an added two-piece RAS attached to it.
If you're going pure KISS, get their carbine gassed 7.0 Railed unit.
If the space out front is needed for accessories, get a longer handguard.

The purpose of taking weight off the gun is to make it easier to operate better, not save weight for the sake of saving weight.

boomhower · #18 09-29-10, 19:34

What's the difference in weight?

500grains · #19 09-29-10, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomhower

What's the difference in weight?

If I recall correctly, the DD LW 16 inch bbl is 6 ounces lighter than the DD M4 barrel.

If I have remembered that incorrectly, someone please let me know.

Of course the 6 ounce savings could easily be squandered by putting on a super-meaty rail (yes, there are some out there), by putting on a giant flashlight, etc. But whatever the setup is, a lighter rifle comes onto target more quickly, even though it will not be quite as steady. So if you carry your gun more than you shoot it, the weight savings is attractive. So unless you are a "range only" shooter, there are going to be advantages to weight savings. IMO.