I'm thinking about getting a NightForce 1-4 x 24 NXS Help me with Pros and Cons

[Tzoid]

I just sold my Leupold Mark 4 1.5x5x20 MR/T M2
and now I'm thinking of replacing it with a NightForce 1-4 x 24 NXS
with FC-2 Reticle. The Leupold was too slow for CQB applications on
my LMT .308 MWS.

What are the Pros and Cons and experiences of other users? Are there other alternatives? I know the TR24-G and of course the Short Dot could also be good choices.

This will not be used on a Bench gun so I need something with a fast reticle.

Thanks for your input

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by Tzoid

I just sold my Leupold Mark 4 1.5x5x20 MR/T M2
and now I'm thinking of replacing it with a NightForce 1-4 x 24 NXS
with FC-2 Reticle. The Leupold was too slow for CQB applications on
my LMT .308 MWS.

What are the Pros and Cons and experiences of other users? Are there other alternatives? I know the TR24-G and of course the Short Dot could also be good choices.

This will not be used on a Bench gun so I need something with a fast reticle.

Thanks for your input

PRO's
Great glass with a lot of good reticle choices.

Cons no daylight visible illumination. My nightforces have illumination that is only visible when its heavy overcast and darker out.

I prefer a scope that has a bright eye catching illuminated reticle. If this is not a big deal for you then the Nightforce is a great scope.

I love my Swarovski Z6i and and saving for the BRT model with a bullet drop.

The Meopta is another good choice to look at.
Pat

[Army Chief]

Pat's pretty much nailed it. I have one, am quite pleased with it, and would not hestitate to buy another, but you have to carefully consider which roles you are trying to fill when selecting any variable optic -- and the NXS is no different.

I have argued at various times and in various places that the FC-1 illumination issue is much ado about nothing, and the fact is that it does give you a crisp, clear aiming point under most any conditions.

The problem, of course, is that many have observed that the illumination washes out in full sunlight. I do think the target background and cover figure into this, but I would concede that on a bright range day, you are going find yourself looking at a sharp black reticle, rather than a glowing red aiming point.

Is that a problem? Not to my mind, but when speed of acquisition is of paramount concern (as you have indicated that it is), you have to understand that the NXS is not going to effectively replicate an Aimpoint or a ShortDot. It's just not designed to deliver that kind of sight picture. It will perform admirably as an illuminated optic in overcast, dusk/dawn and nighttime roles, but if you're looking for an RDS capability, you may need to step down to an Aimpoint or step up to a ShortDot. If, on the other hand, you're looking for a solid, general purpose 1-4 that can handle a variety of missions, under a wide variety of circumstances, the NXS remains a solid proposition.

AC

[Tzoid]

I appreciate both of your insight on the reticle illumination and I really don't see this as an issue. As I posted I am selling my Leupold with the TMR reticle because I found it slow at 50-100 yard CQB applications. I was hoping that the FC-1 reticle would be as close to a Aimpoint- EoTech with the versatility of a 1x4 but not breaking the bank on a S&B Short Dot.

[Tzoid]

Damn the Meopta Meostar R1 1-4x22 is $ 799.00

Sounds like a deal if it's on par with the NightForce

[bp7178]

I've read quite a few posts about quality problems with the Meostars. But, no first hand stuff.

Here is a thread with quite a few reticle pics...http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-14x-s...81_page16.html

I was thinking about getting a NXS with the zero stops and 1/10 mil adjustments with the close range mildot. It ends up at almost $1400. One feature I thought was really neat with the NXS is that after you adjust the diopter ring you tighten the lock ring onto it, and to adjust the power of the scope the whole occular assembly turns. No find the little ring stuff.

From the pics on opticstalk, I was starting to think it (the close mil-dot) was a little small and thin. I really don't like the FC-2. It just doesn't do it for me.

Have you seen the Leupold 1.5-5xs with the CMR2 reticle?

[Tzoid]

I can't find the Leupold 1.5-5xs with the CMR2 anywhere..... and idea where I can see that ?

[ucrt]

I have been looking for a 1-4X scope, too.

I want a daylight visible illuminated reticle. To me, why have a 1X that might have to be used CQ that doesn't have a bright visible reticle. A scope is already at a disadvantage over a RDS in a CQ situation because of a scope's parallax, need for a cheekweld, etc., so why give up the speed of a bright illuminated reticle, too.

I have looked at the NF, Burris, Trijicon, and Meopta scopes. If I HAD to get one right now, I'd get the Meopta.
BUT
Meopta is supposed to be coming out with a new and improved K-Dot in December. Hopefully, NF will listen to the #1 complaint about their 1-4X line and come out with brighter reticle before Meopta new K-Dot comes out??

If not, I'll save spending a few Franklins and get a Meopta.

But that's just me...

.

[SHIVAN]

1) Thing I hated about both the Leupold Mk4 1.5-5 and S&B Short Dot was the weight they seemed to add to my short carbines. On an MWS, or other 308 AR, I personally think it would be a deal breaker. I have a T1 in DD mount on my newest 12.5" AR-10.

2) I did not like the first NF 1-4's when I shot them on some classmates carbines, the FOV seemed cramped, even compared to the Leupold. The Short Dot never seemed that way to me.

3) Training with Ken and Larry has shown me that I can get all my "civilian" HD/SD gun needs met with a RDS. Engaging a 1/4 IPSC steel at 200+ yds is "good enough" for me.

Since you have already ruled out the Leupold, I would just get the Short Dot if you are convinced you want the 1-4 optic.

[bp7178]

http://swfa.com/Leupold-Mark-4-MRT-R...opes-C125.aspx

I love it when people say "just get the short dot". Right. It's $2600. I know people will say that you get what you pay for...its double the cost of a really good scope (NF). You need to REALLY have a need to justify the extra cost. Not fake ass punching paper waiting for the zombies need, actual need.

I would take a NF or a Mark IV and have one of the most blistering raw dog weeknds in vegas before I would drop the extra $1200-1400 for a short dot. They aren't the end all be all.

If you have the kind of bank roll where that extra $1200-1400 over a NF isn't a concern...then i'm bringing you to vegas

All this talk about CQB...when my rifle is by my bed, its running irons and a white light. I think guys get caught up with the cool guy stuff and think they can't hit anything without a T-1. Room distance. Front sight pull trigger.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by bp7178

I've read quite a few posts about quality problems with the Meostars. But, no first hand stuff.

Here is a thread with quite a few reticle pics...http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-14x-s...81_page16.html

I was thinking about getting a NXS with the zero stops and 1/10 mil adjustments with the close range mildot. It ends up at almost $1400. One feature I thought was really neat with the NXS is that after you adjust the diopter ring you tighten the lock ring onto it, and to adjust the power of the scope the whole occular assembly turns. No find the little ring stuff.

From the pics on opticstalk, I was starting to think it (the close mil-dot) was a little small and thin. I really don't like the FC-2. It just doesn't do it for me.

Have you seen the Leupold 1.5-5xs with the CMR2 reticle?

The Meopta is very popular in the three gun world. That is where I have seen them used. Two of my shooting buddies have them and have not had any issues. The Meopta also has a reticle that gives you points of refrence that can be used as a BDC if you figure out your load.
Pat

[Bolt_Overide]

Ive been tossing around the idea of getting a couple short dots, but the more I think about it, the more I keep thinking that it would be such a waste of money as I would never use them to their potential. Add to that the fact that I really dont NEED one, (or two) I just want one.

[Tzoid]

This is pretty damn confusing

I hate to be so fickle but I'm most likely going to drop 1000-1400 bucks and I want to be happier with the optic than I was with my Leupold.

Now I'm looking at the IOR Valdada Tactical Scopes...The Reticle looks like it would be pretty fast.

[SHIVAN]

Originally Posted by bp7178

http://swfa.com/Leupold-Mark-4-MRT-R...opes-C125.aspx

I love it when people say "just get the short dot". Right. It's $2600. I know people will say that you get what you pay for...its double the cost of a really good scope (NF). You need to REALLY have a need to justify the extra cost. Not fake ass punching paper waiting for the zombies need, actual need.

I would take a NF or a Mark IV and have one of the most blistering raw dog weeknds in vegas before I would drop the extra $1200-1400 for a short dot. They aren't the end all be all.

If you have the kind of bank roll where that extra $1200-1400 over a NF isn't a concern...then i'm bringing you to vegas

All this talk about CQB...when my rifle is by my bed, its running irons and a white light. I think guys get caught up with the cool guy stuff and think they can't hit anything without a T-1. Room distance. Front sight pull trigger.

I bought the Leupold 1.5-5 with LaRue mount to try it out, because I Leupold, and it seemed like it would be a good fit for me. Then I shot the NF and the USO. I looked at a Meopta in a store.

In the end, if I had bought the NF I would have been unhappy. The reticle washed out, and the FOV was cramped. As it was, I had dropped about $900 on the Leupold setup, as I recall, and it wasn't what I wanted from that optic either.

So, then I was behind $900 from the gate. I didn't pay $2600 for my Short Dot, and no one should pay retail unless they are an abject retard. There are so many ways to get deals on them, that they come in just a few hairs over the NF, for a superior optic in almost every regard.

I like the Meopta, but it was too long, and would have effected the balance even worse on a 10" gun than the Short Dot did.

I didn't drop the coin on the Short Dot because I just wanted a Short Dot, I dropped the coin on it because I had done my homework.

In the end though, I still feel that for everything I need from a HD/SD carbine setup, an Aimpoint will do what I need just fine.


ETA: I've also killed two running deer at "room distances" using no sights, just sighting along the barrel because they were so close that my 3.5-10x scope was useless. I think I would manage.

Irons are fine, and they are up and ready for use. They are also slower than a RDS at almost all distances I shoot. I like to test these things on timers just to be sure.

[bp7178]

There are so many ways to get deals on them, that they come in just a few hairs over the NF, for a superior optic in almost every regard.

Do they have a LE/MIL program or something?

[Belmont31R]

Originally Posted by bp7178

http://swfa.com/Leupold-Mark-4-MRT-R...opes-C125.aspx

I love it when people say "just get the short dot". Right. It's $2600. I know people will say that you get what you pay for...its double the cost of a really good scope (NF). You need to REALLY have a need to justify the extra cost. Not fake ass punching paper waiting for the zombies need, actual need.

I would take a NF or a Mark IV and have one of the most blistering raw dog weeknds in vegas before I would drop the extra $1200-1400 for a short dot. They aren't the end all be all.

If you have the kind of bank roll where that extra $1200-1400 over a NF isn't a concern...then i'm bringing you to vegas

All this talk about CQB...when my rifle is by my bed, its running irons and a white light. I think guys get caught up with the cool guy stuff and think they can't hit anything without a T-1. Room distance. Front sight pull trigger.

No doubt someone who runs irons would think a SD is a waste of money.


How much experience do you have with one?

[Belmont31R]

Originally Posted by Bolt_Overide

Ive been tossing around the idea of getting a couple short dots, but the more I think about it, the more I keep thinking that it would be such a waste of money as I would never use them to their potential. Add to that the fact that I really dont NEED one, (or two) I just want one.

Just shooting at the range and training they are a distinct improvement over a Nightforce.



The no day light visible illumination on the NF is a deal breaker for me, and shooting the two optics side by side the SD is much brighter and clearer especially in low light conditions. I wonder how many people who think the SD is a waste of money have actually shot with one side by side with other optics under the same conditions.


Not to mention the eye box on NF compact scopes tends to be very small, and you have to have your head in a specific spot to get a full reticle picture. Other scopes (including the SD) are much more forgiving when it comes to head position behind the gun, and have day light visible reticles.

[Belmont31R]

Originally Posted by SHIVAN

I bought the Leupold 1.5-5 with LaRue mount to try it out, because I Leupold, and it seemed like it would be a good fit for me. Then I shot the NF and the USO. I looked at a Meopta in a store.

In the end, if I had bought the NF I would have been unhappy. The reticle washed out, and the FOV was cramped. As it was, I had dropped about $900 on the Leupold setup, as I recall, and it wasn't what I wanted from that optic either.

So, then I was behind $900 from the gate. I didn't pay $2600 for my Short Dot, and no one should pay retail unless they are an abject retard. There are so many ways to get deals on them, that they come in just a few hairs over the NF, for a superior optic in almost every regard.

I like the Meopta, but it was too long, and would have effected the balance even worse on a 10" gun than the Short Dot did.

I didn't drop the coin on the Short Dot because I just wanted a Short Dot, I dropped the coin on it because I had done my homework.

In the end though, I still feel that for everything I need from a HD/SD carbine setup, an Aimpoint will do what I need just fine.


ETA: I've also killed two running deer at "room distances" using no sights, just sighting along the barrel because they were so close that my 3.5-10x scope was useless. I think I would manage.

Irons are fine, and they are up and ready for use. They are also slower than a RDS at almost all distances I shoot. I like to test these things on timers just to be sure.

Gotta give you some credit for putting a Short-Dot on 10" SBR....


I had mine on my 16" LaRue and now on my EMC. With those guns it balances just fine. It did take some getting used to since its a tank of an optic, and at first felt top heavy. Now that Im used to it (owned a Short-Dot since early 2008) the gun feels fine.


And yes if you are mil/leo you can get any PM series S&B optic directly for them, and from what a couple top vendors have told me the direct mil/leo price is actually less than what dealers are buying them for. If you are not able to get that pricing (civie) then Id look for a used one. I sold my first SD (Gen 1) for $1400, and I bought it used for $1800. I sold it, and got a Gen II (just different turrets) through SB for under 2k. Ive seen quite a few excellent condition used ones for $1400-1800. A brand new NF is not much cheaper, the SD is a much better optic as far as features and build quality go.

[bp7178]

I've used a Gen I before, and any magnified optic, bought for the sole use of a HD role, is a waste of money. I run irons when my carbine is used in THAT role. There are many reason for doing so.

Don't get me wrong, the SD has very strong features and quality that commands the price. But for $2600 for most is a huge amount of money, especially for those in LE or MIL jobs.

I would give strong consideration to getting a SD if I could get one new for close to a NF. If you know of where such deals can be had, I'm all ears.

They are great optics. Price, especially at that level, is and has to be a consideration.

EDIT: I just saw your info about the pricing. I'm going to give them a call Monday and see.

[SHIVAN]

Originally Posted by Belmont31R

Gotta give you some credit for putting a Short-Dot on 10" SBR....

Almost "full time" suppressed, so about like a 16" gun, and helped the balance, but the weight was horrible. Like humping an M14....