Rimfire Training Rigs - RDS or Irons?

friendlyfireisnt · #1 12-08-10, 19:03

Shooting is expensive, no way around it. But I know it's also a perishable skills, so I traded into a Tacsol .22lr upper and some black dog mags recently so I can do a bit more practice on the cheap.

My primary carbine has a ML-3 in a larue mount with MBUS backups. I can't afford to purchase the same for the .22lr upper.

Part of me is thinking I should get a Primary Arms RDS, to replicate the RDS, another part of me is thinking I should focus on irons with the training.

Any ideas for what's best? Can't afford to do both, unfortunately.

TehLlama · #2 12-08-10, 23:01

My .22lr setups tend to become receptacles for old optics I've given up on and am unwilling to sell for such a steep loss, but that said, they're a perfect platform to run simple irons for (MBUS or cheaper).

In your position, I'd get a set of MBUS for the .22 and use those, and if you want to, move the Aimpoint over (and accept that the POI is going to be way off) if you want to practice with that.

Luckystiff · #3 12-09-10, 00:50

Consider the Vortex Strike Fire. At about $150.00 including mount it is not that expensive and the basic sight picture and shape of the optic is consistent with your M3. This helps with the "Train as you fight, fight as you train".

friendlyfireisnt · #4 12-09-10, 22:33

Thanks for chiming in guys. I have exactly $150 set aside right now, so I can just afford the Strikefire, or I could get a BUIS or a Primary Arms RDS plus a few mag pouches and other items.

M4Fundi · #5 12-10-10, 01:34

"I" would start with a good set of irons only and when funds became available get the RDS and then practice with both.

ASH556 · #6 12-10-10, 10:59

I have the MBUS on my MOE 15-22. They're great for training. In my humble opinion (flack suit on) The irons take way more practice to acquire quickly, repeatably, and accurately than a RDS, thus, for a training rig, run irons (or in the case of the MBUS, Polymers). A RDS is quick second nature to the slower, more complex irons.

Note: I DID NOT say not to practice with the dot. You still need to practice with your primary rig and RDS. However, you can afford to get in more practice time with the 22 and irons.

HeavyDuty · #7 12-10-10, 11:14

I'm rebuilding my dedicated .22LR AR to replicate my newest 5.56 build for cheap training without a conversion. To that end, I swallowed hard and bought a used LaRue LT-150 to mount a PA M3 clone. Irons also duplicate the 5.56 - FSB front, Hahn Precision rear.

ra2bach · #8 12-17-10, 15:49

maybe I'm under thinking this but I think the best thing to do is to try to replicate whatever your "real" gun is.

ask yourself how is training for thousands of through iron sights going to help you shoot with RDS?

ASH556 · #9 12-17-10, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ra2bach

maybe I'm under thinking this but I think the best thing to do is to try to replicate whatever your "real" gun is.

ask yourself how is training for thousands of through iron sights going to help you shoot with RDS?

Quote:

A RDS is quick second nature to the slower, more complex irons.

In my experience a dot takes no training if you already train with sights. Stance, Grip, Cheekweld, Breathing, and Trigger Control are all the same. The only thing that changes is sight alignment which is now much simpler as you're not aligning your sights and then placing them on the target; you simply place the dot on the target.

ra2bach · #10 12-18-10, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASH556

In my experience a dot takes no training if you already train with sights. Stance, Grip, Cheekweld, Breathing, and Trigger Control are all the same. The only thing that changes is sight alignment which is now much simpler as you're not aligning your sights and then placing them on the target; you simply place the dot on the target.

it goes without saying that everyone is different but in the world of training, the best, most generic advice is to train like you fight.

you say that a RDS is superior in that it is faster and easier to use than irons and I agree but one is not the other and practice with the lesser does not automatically guarantee proficiency with the greater.

practice with iron sights will make you a better iron shooter, and there's a lot to be said for that, but the RDS has it's own set of operational and perceptive issues including POA/POI at different distances, dot size and brightness in differing ambient lighting, peripheral acuity/awareness, and mechanical operation. it's all about repetition and familiarity and if I have a RDS on my fighting rifle, that's what I want to be building familiarity with on my training rifle, not the secondary sighting system.

now, it may be that all this is irrelevant and the difference in someone's performance comes down more to whether they drank coffee with breakfast that morning than what we are discussing but as for me, I know I prefer to keep my practice the same.

friendlyfireisnt · #11 12-19-10, 17:27

Thanks for the input everyone. I think I've decided which route I am going to go. I've been wanting to switch the BUIS on my AR to a fixed BUIS, so I am going to take the MBUS off there, put that on my .22lr, and get a DD fixed BUIS.

I need more practice on irons anyways, so this with my .22 I will get the needed practice. I'll still be practicing with the RDS on my primary AR, and eventually I will throw a cheaper RDS on my .22lr.

SA80Dan · #12 12-21-10, 10:35

Sounds like a good way to go. As someone else said, I also put my 'hand me down' optic on my 15-22. Doesn't 100% replicate the latest and greatest on the main rifle, but so long as it is of a similar type, works great as a trg tool.