Samson Evolution Rail-First Impressions.

[Magsz]

Hey guys,

I have a full length review inbound but i wanted to go ahead and post my first impressions of the rail after the install. I have NOT shot the setup yet but i will be doing so on Saturday. Also, please note that this IS a preproduction rail and there are certain changes being made as i will note in this review. There may be other changes but i am unaware of them at the time of writing this.

Pros:

The rail is very well made. The anodizing is a matte black and is type 3. The machining is clean and there are no sharp edges despite the rather intricate S shaped cutouts running the entire length of rail.

This thing is light. I dont have a postal scale so i cannot get exact weight but i believe that the quoted weight on the "other" site was 10.8 ounces including stock AR15 barrel nut.

Install is very easy despite my desire to ghetto gunsmith. I shaved my FSB, cut off my delta ring, pulled off the weld spring and the c-clamp as well.

The tensioning device for this rail acts as a thermal heat sink according to Samson and its really quite neat the way in which the whole thing locks up. No issues with fit, everything went on smoothly except for one minor hitch which i will detail later.

The diameter of the rail is perfect for my particular hand size and if i choose to do so i can wrap my entire hand around the rail with my thumb well over the top. Diameter of the rail at the widest point is 1.75 inches.

Perfectly round tubes are too hard for me to hold onto without a hand stop. This tube seems polygonal in design and this definitely lends itself to getting a better grip on the tube. I will have to shoot this thing in the Florida heat and see how well i can grip it with my sweat spewing hands and with gloves.

The lockup portion on the bottom of the rail that tensions it against the heat sink has two helicoil inserts. I intentionally tried to strip these out by over torquing the two bolts and was unable to do so.

When properly torque down (i dont have a torque spec for the two retaining allen head bolts, i will be calling Samson today to get one) the rail has almost ZERO flex. For a rail this small, light and thin im surprised by this. Normally if you apply pressure towards the end of the rail you can push enough to get the tube to shift location. Its not such a big deal as these rails are free floated around the barrel but if push comes to shove i prefer a rail that is 100% solid. The evolution rail is definitely solid.

The rail comes with three rail sections to add to the tube. I havent added these yet as ive never needed picatinny rail on my guns for anything other than a vert grip or handstop. I will be shooting the gun without a handstop for the time being as the profile of the rail lends itself to that style of grip very well. I will say that the way in which the rails mount up is quite nice. They will NOT shift on the tube as backer that secures the 1913 section is indexed to the rail itself. Once you torque down the rail sections they're on there to stay.

There are two anti rotation tabs that index on your upper receiver. This rail is not rotating, period.

Cons:

I only have a few cons thus far.

The rail cannot shotgun open completely as the locking collar prevents the upper from hinging open completely as it butts up against the lower receiver. This is a pretty big deal for me as every time i open the receiver i cringe if i dont do it slowly. I really do believe that uppers/rails/lowers that prevent the gun from opening completely are adding undue stress to parts that dont need to be stressed in that manner. Im not sure if Samson is addressing this although i did suggest that he radius the FRONT edge of the locking clamp to remove the square edge there and he said it was already in process on production rails.

Im a natural born skeptic and while the rail locks up SUPER tight its only held on by two screws. The rail itself does not actually lock itself onto the upper or the barrel nut. It is held onto the thermal collar by nothing more than friction and clamping action provided by two allen bolts. Now, let me say that the thermal collar DOES index onto the splines on the stock AR15 barrel nut so the entire assembly should not be rotating or moving. This is pretty neat as the profile of the rail, the profile of the thermal block and the actual anti rotation tabs provide TWO points of anti rotation to the system. I dont know exactly how much pressure is being applied to that area but i wasnt able to pull the rail off forward despite trying pretty damned hard. I think with the helicoil inserts, some locktite or rocksett on the allen bolts and you should be good to go for life.

The 11 inch rail is indeed 11 inches but the VERY front of my gas block is exposed. Not a big deal but if i had the option i would prefer a 11.25 or 11.5 inch rail to cover the shaved FSB completely. This is mostly a non issue and is more of my personal opinion being interjected here.

This isnt so much a con as it is an observation. The anti rotation tabs were very tight on my upper and gouged the material slightly upon installation. Truth be told i would rather have this too tight as it is a cosmetic issue and nothing more. I just wanted to point this out in case you sleep with your rifle at night and it requires plastic surgery if it should happen to fall and scrape its knee. Personally, i dont give a darn as the rail is locked on there. This is the "hitch" I alluded to earlier by the way.

Here are some preliminary pictures. I will be adding to this thread with more details and pictures once i get a chance to beat the rail up a little this weekend.

[miamitj]

Good write-up Ian! But, I must say ... That rifle looks too clean and lacks "character".

Now let me keep if for a couple weeks and lets see how it holds up to me and my idea of "running a rifle through its functions" ...

[Terminator2003]

Looks like a nice rig, thanks for the detailed review!. I agree on the length. That would bug me if it didn't cover a shaved gas block. I would rather just mill the top of the cover to fit around the stock front sight, if it wasn't going to completely cover it. Hopefully they will address the interference problem with that lower clamp too. I would not want something that would add stress to the pivot pin, or mark the lower receiver.

[scottryan]

tag for later reading

[Seagrave7]

Nice write up. Lets see more photos of the rail. BTW, interesting to see Samson using a very similar setup to the Troy/VTAC TRX Extreme handguards in terms of attaching to the receiver. I would not be surprised at Show 2011 to see more and more of these types of handguards from the industry.

[Magsz]

Originally Posted by Seagrave7

Nice write up. Lets see more photos of the rail. BTW, interesting to see Samson using a very similar setup to the Troy/VTAC TRX Extreme handguards in terms of attaching to the receiver. I would not be surprised at Show 2011 to see more and more of these types of handguards from the industry.

Besides the fact that there is a clamp the locking/attachment methods are entirely different.

The way in which the tube bolts around the heat sink is genius. No need to remove barrel nuts, no issues with differing specifications for heat treat, steel quality etc in the barrel nut itself as you're using a factory spec'd nut, hopefully a good quality one too.

Also, no need to re zero since there is no "advanced" gunsmithing involved. I will confirm my zero but it should not have shifted.

[Seagrave7]

Originally Posted by Magsz

Besides the fact that there is a clamp the locking/attachment methods are entirely different.

The way in which the tube bolts around the heat sink is genius. No need to remove barrel nuts, no issues with differing specifications for heat treat, steel quality etc in the barrel nut itself as you're using a factory spec'd nut, hopefully a good quality one too.

Also, no need to re zero since there is no "advanced" gunsmithing involved. I will confirm my zero but it should not have shifted.

Very interesting, thanks for the clarification.

[Boss Hogg]

Originally Posted by Magsz

Besides the fact that there is a clamp the locking/attachment methods are entirely different.

The way in which the tube bolts around the heat sink is genius. No need to remove barrel nuts, no issues with differing specifications for heat treat, steel quality etc in the barrel nut itself as you're using a factory spec'd nut, hopefully a good quality one too.

Also, no need to re zero since there is no "advanced" gunsmithing involved. I will confirm my zero but it should not have shifted.

Nice write up and looks like a good product.

How is that barrel nut lock-up substantially different than Troy's TRX Extreme? (I know that the Troy uses a proprietary barrel nut, but it looks very similar, as does the clamp with two bolts)

[Brahmzy]

Samson says this'll fit a 308 upper as well. Nobody seems to have any pics yet however. I wanna know if the rail height will match a MEGA MATEN upper rec.

[Magsz]

Originally Posted by Boss Hogg

Nice write up and looks like a good product.

How is that barrel nut lock-up substantially different than Troy's TRX Extreme? (I know that the Troy uses a proprietary barrel nut, but it looks very similar, as does the clamp with two bolts)

Boss,

The Troy TRX rails index on the nut and are rotated into place. They are actually retained by the splines on the nut and then clamped into place via the 6 o'clock positioned bolts.

The Samson rail has a barrel nut heat sink that is indexed onto the teeth of the barrel nut. The rail is then slid onto the heat sink and tightened down via the six o'clock clamp. The machined "waves" on both the rail tube itself and the heat sink prevent the rail from rotating along with the actual anti rotation tabs that interface with your upper receiver.

The Troy lockup could be perceived to be better in that it cannot move foward off of its barrel nut unless it rotates off after coming loose but honestly, i think i would break my weapon before i am able to pull this Samson rail off of the heat sink collar, its that tight.

Ultimately, you're hosed IF the rail comes loose but i would trust the factory barrel nut over any aftermarket nut any day of the week. Even if the rail falls off you still have a "functional" weapon with both the troy and samson rail designs.

I will get pictures for you guys this weekend of the way the rail locks onto the collar, its really quite ingenious and neat.

[Magsz]

Another photo after todays session.



Some quick thoughts.

1. The rail gets hot. Running a high volume of fire carbine course is going to get uncomfortable fast. At the same time, the rail also dissipates heat fairly quickly due to how well ventilated it is. The slim profile also means that there is simply not all that much material there to absorb heat. Either that or the heat sink barrel nut shroud/mounting collar really is pulling heat off of the rail THAT well. Im not sure as im not an engineer.

2. The slim profile is awesome, even better than i had anticipated. This deserves mention once more.

3. The lockup is solid as can be. No wiggle in the rail, ZERO despite the use of a two point sling. We shot from supine today and i generally press out with the rifle just enough to apply forward pressure on the sling to help mitigate recoil and keep the sights in line with my eyes. Zero flex on the rail while doing this and i tend to push with my reaction hand fairly hard for the sake of consistency.

I am very pleased with this rail and i cannot wait to see how it holds up over time. A little under 500 rounds through it today and no movement on the mounting bolts.

My only real concern is whether or not this rifle will be suited towards high volume training. I have my doubts but honestly, as a civi, my love of carbines is rooted mostly in fantasy and a desire to practice a skill set that i find fascinating. The likelihood of me needing to grab a rifle is slim to none so for me, this is not a go to war weapon and if the light weight, profile and ease of use works for me the worst case scenario is that i have to don a glove in order to train.

Thanks again Samson for what i believe to be one of the best tubular rail systems on the market

[Boss Hogg]

Received mine yesterday. Some of the edges are kind of sharp, but it should do well. You don't need 360 degrees of rail space- look at the cost savings of doing it this way with modular rail pieces.

[SixEight]

I'm in the market for a Daniel Defense but the Samson is damn sexy and cheap.

I like the fact that it uses the factory barrel nut and has two symmetric anti-rotation tabs instead of the one-sided tab like the Troy/VTAC.

Originally Posted by Magsz

1. The rail gets hot. Running a high volume of fire carbine course is going to get uncomfortable fast. At the same time, the rail also dissipates heat fairly quickly due to how well ventilated it is. The slim profile also means that there is simply not all that much material there to absorb heat. Either that or the heat sink barrel nut shroud/mounting collar really is pulling heat off of the rail THAT well. Im not sure as im not an engineer.

How hot say compared to a quad rail like a Daniel Defense if you've shot one of those?

[11B101ABN]

I like it. I appears to be a bit "beefier" than the Troy/VTAC rail. Maybe it's just the pics.

[spamsammich]

Originally Posted by sqwerl

I'm in the market for a Daniel Defense but the Samson is damn sexy and cheap.

I like the fact that it uses the factory barrel nut and has two symmetric anti-rotation tabs instead of the one-sided tab like the Troy/VTAC.



How hot say compared to a quad rail like a Daniel Defense if you've shot one of those?

In my experience with Troy/VTAC extreme rails, these low profile tube rails get just as hot as DD rails, but there is nothing insulating you from the hot metal. I used to put XTMs everywhere on my DD rails so I could shoot for quite a while without really getting uncomfortable without gloves. I'd say gloves are a must if you are shooting extended strings of fire with these low profile rails without sections on them for insulating rail covers. I was able to shoot slightly higher volumes with only an AFG and gloves. I shot about 120 rounds with about 1 second between shots before it became uncomfortable with gloves and AFG. Without gloves I was really pushing it to get 90 rounds with teh same rate of fire.

[SixEight]

Originally Posted by Magsz

The rail cannot shotgun open completely as the locking collar prevents the upper from hinging open completely as it butts up against the lower receiver. This is a pretty big deal for me as every time i open the receiver i cringe if i dont do it slowly. I really do believe that uppers/rails/lowers that prevent the gun from opening completely are adding undue stress to parts that dont need to be stressed in that manner. Im not sure if Samson is addressing this although i did suggest that he radius the FRONT edge of the locking clamp to remove the square edge there and he said it was already in process on production rails.

How far of a difference is there shotgunning open as compared to non-tube rails and a stock HG?

[dennisuello]

I like their optional extension. I'd like to see that for Troy TRX.



BTW, what's the OD of the tube?

[scottryan]

Slot cut down the middle of the add on rails is unacceptable.

[chadbag]

The S cooling slots are a bit of a disappointment in terms of using them for mount-n-slot type things. Looks (just from the pics) like it would be harder to keep things in place (??)

[OTO27]

Whats the total weight of the system?