malfunction and ammo question

ejewels · #1 03-26-11, 17:42

Ok, so I was sighting in my new scope on my Colt MT6400c today at the range. Used 1 PMAG for everything, I shot 50 rounds of white box 5.56 ammo through it without one hiccup or jam.

I then switched to Wolf .223 ammo I had purchased at the range. Every 3 or 4 shots my gun had feeding issues. I had about 2 FTF's (the round got jammed) and something else which I don't know the term for the failure. The gun would shoot a round, cycle, and then go back into battery. I would then pull the trigger and "click", nothing. I then would realize it never even loaded the next round when the bolt when back into battery!

So I have 2 questions.
1) What is wrong with my gun... was it just the wolf ammo?
2) What kind of failure is it when the bolt just goes back into battery without feeding the next round?

Any help greatly appreciated!

An Undocumented Worker · #2 03-26-11, 17:46

The failure where it didn't feed the round and just went back into battery is called a short stroke.

It sounds like the wolf was loaded too weak to produce enough gas to completely cycle the weapon.

I'd say this is solely an ammo problem as your colt was designed and tuned to run on full power 5.56 ammo.

ejewels · #3 03-26-11, 17:59

I probably should have mentioned that I shot other .223 ammo and don't remember having these issues. I have only really shot 5.56 after that.

Does wolf ammo tend to have issues?

An Undocumented Worker · #4 03-26-11, 18:17

Wolf tends to be underpowered, and sometimes dimensions of the case or overall lenght of the rounds just aren't right. If you have any problems with factory made 5.56 from a known good manufacturer, then I might worry.

Wolf is bottom dollar ammo and it's quality is reflected in it's price.

bkb0000 · #5 03-26-11, 18:25

might have been a bad batch, but that's rare. how much did you buy? wolf is "cheap," but its definitely not the cheapest, and most colts run it fine. check for gas leaks on your weapon.. consider replacing the action spring, and possibly switch to a C buffer if you want to run a lot of steel ammo. well worth the $15.

thopkins22 · #6 03-26-11, 20:19

How well was the weapon lubricated?

Just a hunch....

bkb0000 · #7 03-26-11, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by thopkins22

How well was the weapon lubricated?

Just a hunch....

you don't think everybody properly lubes their action??

ejewels · #8 03-27-11, 00:06

It was lubed up decently with CLP the last time I cleaned it. Wasn't over lubed, but wasn't totally dry either. How would I check for gas leaks? Hopefully there isn't something actually wrong with it.

Iraqgunz · #9 03-27-11, 00:20

Here's my thought. I know alot of people say that an AR should run with steel cased ammo and I say that is wrong. The AR system was designed to use brass ammo. Yes, some do work with it, and some not so well.

Try some other steel case (like the Hornady TAP) and see what happens. In any case as long as it runs with brass ammo you are GTG.

bkb0000 · #10 03-27-11, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

Here's my thought. I know alot of people say that an AR should run with steel cased ammo and I say that is wrong. The AR system was designed to use brass ammo. Yes, some do work with it, and some not so well.

Try some other steel case (like the Hornady TAP) and see what happens. In any case as long as it runs with brass ammo you are GTG.

this probably isn't the first time we've disagreed on this, but as always, it'd be my argument that a weapon that cant function on low-powered ammo is a weapon with too thin of a reliability threshold. furthermore, since the vast majority of colts WILL run steel, it's just further evidence that the weapon is finicky, and needs to be addressed.

but we haven't at all established that this weapon has a problem with steel... all we've established is that it didn't like a few rounds from the batch you tried. if it was me, i'd get a half case from a different lot, and try again. if the weapon's new, could also just need a little bit of a break-in.

ZRH · #11 03-27-11, 01:21

Do you have a lighter buffer you can stick in to try with the wolf?

Belmont31R · #12 03-27-11, 01:41

To check for gas leaks look for carbon residue around the gas block. A little bit is normal but if you only shot a few mags worth it would be hard to tell unless there was a major leakage.

You can also check the BCG gas key. Make sure its on tight nothing that looks out place.

What action spring is it? I tend to prefer regular Colt carbine springs. Nothing "extra power" or stiffer than a stock spring. I run almost all H buffers, too, nothing like H2 or H3.

If you only have a few hundred rounds through the thing its probably still kind of tight and things are wearing together.

As far as a gun should be able to run crappy weak ammo....I prefer shooting 5.56 pressure ammo and not be over gassed with more recoil than I need just to be able to run really weak ammo. I like the fact my SR15 for instance is tuned to run 5.56 which contributes to its out of the box soft recoil.

BTW I had a 6921 upper that didn't like Wolf either until it had several thousand rounds through it. I suspect it ran it later on due to gas port erosion opening up the gas port a little more than it was well worn in at that point. I don't worry about a gun that doesn't run it. The military will not run anything but American made ammo in combat loads but we did shoot British ammo in training a few times. We were warned not to use it in combat loads because it was tuned to run the SA80 not our guns, and it may cause reliability issues.

Iraqgunz · #13 03-27-11, 02:33

It's not just about weak ammo. It's about weak ammo that also doesn't expand in the chamber the way that brass ammo does.

It's also about QC on behalf of Wolf or whoever. Hornady cases come from Wolf (IIRC from the email they sent me) but they load it with good powder and use a good bullet. In 2200 rounds I have had no malfunctions at all. With the exception of a dead primer.

I am running it in my SBR with the suppressor. I have also fired it in my other AR's with no issues.

I agree that we really haven't established anything as of yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkb0000

this probably isn't the first time we've disagreed on this, but as always, it'd be my argument that a weapon that cant function on low-powered ammo is a weapon with too thin of a reliability threshold. furthermore, since the vast majority of colts WILL run steel, it's just further evidence that the weapon is finicky, and needs to be addressed.

but we haven't at all established that this weapon has a problem with steel... all we've established is that it didn't like a few rounds from the batch you tried. if it was me, i'd get a half case from a different lot, and try again. if the weapon's new, could also just need a little bit of a break-in.

MistWolf · #14 03-27-11, 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

It's not just about weak ammo. It's about weak ammo that also doesn't expand in the chamber the way that brass ammo does...

Very true. Steel does not expand as much as brass and doesn't give as a good of a seal, which allows gases to flow back into the chamber. If Wolf is low powered, this is even more of a problem. If I recall, this can cause erosion damage in the chamber over time. It also increases bolt thrust as the case doesn't stick as well to the chamber walls placing more stress on the bolt lugs.

This isn't a poke at those who run steel cased ammo in their rifles, as the cost of the additional wear (if any) is likely made up for in the savings in the price of the ammo

ejewels · #15 03-27-11, 09:45

last week I ran about 30 rounds of Hornady TAP .223 75 gr hp's through it, with no issues. Also, I am a noob with ARs in general so I can't answer all of the asked questions. I do know that I have the H buffer tho. I also had a magpul MOE stock installed.

The question is, do i even bother to go back to the range, buy some more of their wolf ammo, and try it out? I mainly shoot 5.56 and stock it... i had just run out of ammo while sighting in and had to purchase the wolf.

bsmith_shoot · #16 03-27-11, 14:00

I would check the gas rings, and the gas key. Clean the rifle up good, and lube it well. Get about 250 rounds of the wolf stuff, and shoot it. If you still have short strokes, get a carbine buffer for your range play with steel case.

Iraqgunz · #17 03-27-11, 15:58

30 rounds with no issues means jack. Put 300 through it in one day and then report back. Why do you insist on buying more Wolf ammo? Why don't you consider some Hornady steel TAP or some decent quality 5.56?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejewels

last week I ran about 30 rounds of Hornady TAP .223 75 gr hp's through it, with no issues. Also, I am a noob with ARs in general so I can't answer all of the asked questions. I do know that I have the H buffer tho. I also had a magpul MOE stock installed.

The question is, do i even bother to go back to the range, buy some more of their wolf ammo, and try it out? I mainly shoot 5.56 and stock it... i had just run out of ammo while sighting in and had to purchase the wolf.

DirectDrive · #18 03-27-11, 16:58

Agree, if you're going to treat her like a range bitch, get a CAR buffer and feed her the cheap diet.
But she's a Colt.

Markasaurus · #19 04-01-11, 19:06

It's probably not your gun. It is the wolf ammo - I was at the range recently and fed my stag carbine a bunch of that green painted crap
Ikve read about other ar's having trouble with this ammo. The maker didn"t matter! Personally I am not using any ammo. That isn't brass anymore - my stock of wolfis getting used up a little at a time and only buying brass from now on!

I think wolf has 2 problems in an ar. 1-weak or cheap powder and 2-steel case interferes/slows extraction enough to throw off Hammer and disconnector timing.
No more wolf for me!

thopkins22 · #20 04-01-11, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markasaurus

I'm afraid to publicly say what I think it made my rifle do (think something not legal!) I had 200 trouble free rounds through it prior.
Ikve read about other ar's having trouble with this ammo. The maker didn"t matter! Personally I am not using any ammo. That isn't brass anymore - my stock of wolfis getting used up a little at a time and only buying brass from now on!

I think wolf has 2 problems in an ar. 1-weak or cheap powder and 2-steel case interferes/slows extraction enough to throw off Hammer and disconnector timing.
No more wolf for me!

Your rifle doubling is not a result of crappy ammo...if it doubled something is wrong with your gun. I feel pretty confident saying that you are putting your ass at serious risk by attributing doubling/bursts/whatever to ammunition and not getting your rifle checked out by a professional.