Why doesn't anyone VIDEO all these excellent classes I read about here???

Rmplstlskn · #1 10-09-07, 17:49

Just an observation...

I see all these AAR's that show they were great classes, some with pics, but none have any VIDEO.

It seems that someone taking VIDEO of these classes and then put them on DVD for the participants to buy (or sell outright) would be a great plus to aid in correcting mistakes. Watching yourself is a great tool, as most professional sports realize. It could also give the trainers a way to have a debriefing with the class after each day to point out areas of weakness...

Is there a market for this service? Would you, as a class participant, pay $30 or so to get a DVD of the class? Would you buy a DVD of a Vickers or Rogers class?

Just some thoughts I had...

Rmpl

Misc Ex-Member · #2 10-09-07, 17:55

I would imagine that the hard-working fellas who put these courses on might be short-changed by having their training presented for free.

Rmplstlskn · #3 10-09-07, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thekatar

I would imagine that the hard-working fellas who put these courses on might be short-changed by having their training presented for free.

Who said FREE? I'm talking about additional PROFIT and PRODUCT for the TRAINER and additional SERVICE to the PARTICIPANT by offering an "AAV" (After Action VIDEO) they can go back to whenever they want to refresh and learn more...

Sort of like all my old Gunsite VHS tapes I converted to DVD format not too far back so I could watch them without hooking up that dinosaur VCR...

I'm not an altruist....

Rmpl

Submariner · #4 10-09-07, 18:09

(Potential) Liability.

OK. Two words.

vcpk9 · #5 10-09-07, 18:39

Pay for the class and bring your own video camera along.

Derek_Connor · #6 10-09-07, 20:07

the teachers are too busy teaching...........students are too busy learning

abnartyguy · #7 10-09-07, 20:39

I bought a couple of these DVD's off of Amazon before i went to one of Hackathorn's classes and found it to be a great source for a train up for the real thing. A DVD is a good thing but there is no replacement for the real thing! later!
-ZM

Treehopr · #8 10-09-07, 20:50

Some classes (or instructors rather) do allow students to video tape. However, for me the purpose of going to a class is to learn and practice the physical skill sets they're teaching under their guidance.

Investing all your energy in to watching people do stuff rather than doing it isn't why most people take the time and money to go to classes. Imagine going to a swim class and not getting in the water because you want to video tape the other swimmers.

A big reason many of my fellow classmates over the years decided to go to a school or class is so they can do things they normally can't on their home ranges such as shooting on the move, working in shoot houses, shooting under low light conditions, from vehicles, etc.

FWIW- Bennie Cooley and Scott Reitz both have some of their curriculum on video.

Paul Howe made extensive use of video recording and playback in a recent 5 day class I took.

Every instructor I've ever trained with encouraged the use of pen and paper for note taking. There are undoubtedly things I have missed that might have been caught had a video camera been available but there are many things I was able to pick up because I was actively absorbing the information rather than passively running a video camera.

That said, if Pat Rogers or Larry Vickers had video of a class they taught I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

**VA_Dinger** · #9 10-09-07, 21:03

Templar has posted a few videos from the Vickers Tactical AK & Battle Rifle classes. I posted two from a VT 3-day pistol/carbine that we held back in Decemeber.

Do a search for those classes.

SuicideHz · #10 10-09-07, 21:57

with places like youtube, only ONE video would have to make it out to "train" everyone out there. It's not like it used to be where it was difficult to copy or share trade secrets like these.

Misc Ex-Member · #11 10-09-07, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmplstlskn

Who said FREE? I'm talking about additional PROFIT and PRODUCT for the TRAINER and additional SERVICE to the PARTICIPANT by offering an "AAV" (After Action VIDEO) they can go back to whenever they want to refresh and learn more...

Sort of like all my old Gunsite VHS tapes I converted to DVD format not too far back so I could watch them without hooking up that dinosaur VCR...

I'm not an altruist....

Rmpl

It's called bootlegging and youtube.

The trainers eyeball you and correct you right there. It's up to you to practice correctly what you have been shown. Have a buddy video you while you practice.

Hawkeye · #12 10-09-07, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek_Connor

the teachers are too busy teaching...........students are too busy learning

Pretty much it.

John_Wayne777 · #13 10-09-07, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuicideHz

with places like youtube, only ONE video would have to make it out to "train" everyone out there. It's not like it used to be where it was difficult to copy or share trade secrets like these.

I've seen videos and I've done the real life training many times. There's no way in heck anyone who watches a video can get even a fraction of the benefit of the training without having been there.

There's not a whole lot of top secret proprietary stuff that goes on at most training courses. There aren't many proprietary drills, and there's no magical fairy dust that hits you when you've seen somebody like Larry Vickers explain something to you.

The benefit of a training course is to be required to perform under the supervision of an expert instructor who can zero in on what you are doing wrong, correct you, and then make you do it the right way. The benefit of training is in doing the drills while being held accountable by the instructor. The learning comes when Larry asks you how that window tastes and tells you to try doing X and then making sure you actually do it. Having a buddy watch you shoot is great and all, but I don't have many buddies who have that critical teacher's eye that lets them see what I'm doing wrong and the experience to correct it.

No video can hope to approach even a fraction of that. You can learn things from videos, that's true...but anyone who would not take a training course because they saw the video would be a fool. I hate to sound vulgar about this, but it's a fitting analogy:

Watching a video of a training course may help you learn a couple of things, but it is no more a suitable replacement for having been there than a porn site is for snuggling up with a real woman. The real thing is incomparably better and a whole hell of a lot more fun.

As to why people don't video courses, there just isn't time. The instructors and the students are typically very busy during a course and have enough to worry about without having a video camera to run.

Persec is also a concern. There are some people who don't need/want their picture on the internet. That has to be respected.

Business_Casual · #14 10-09-07, 23:15

What are you guys talking about? There are plenty of trainers that offer videos. There are plenty of videos already out there. Valhalla (sp?) just released a bunch of new videos.

???

M_P

rob_s · #15 10-10-07, 05:59

I actually think it wouldn't be a bad idea to offer a video of a class that you were in. For one thing, you could go back and look at it and remind yourself of all the things you forgot.

Robb Jensen · #16 10-10-07, 06:47

If someone where to take just a few video snippets from a training class things......... whats said/shown could easily be taken out of context and could make the trainer and methods look bad.

If it was a production grade video (made for the purpose of sales) that's a whole different animal.

John_Wayne777 · #17 10-10-07, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotm4

If it was a production grade video (made for the purpose of sales) that's a whole different animal.

...and a whole lot of work, too.

markm · #18 10-10-07, 09:00

Just have the New England Patriots record it for you!

gyp_c2 · #19 10-10-07, 22:33

...because if you took video without permission, you might wind up as a target for a box drill with all the students working at the same time...

It'd be a major distraction from the classwork...and I certainly wouldn't volunteer to spend my classtime screwin' with somethin' besides what I have on my plate...

Rmplstlskn · #20 10-11-07, 15:13

Now that I storyboard it in my head what video from a live, not staged for video class would be like, I see less value to my original idea and post...

First, it would not focus on any one individual, as many would be on the line at the same time, therefore value of a video to the class student for an AAV would be limited as other shooters and other obstructions may make that person unseen or needed detail hidden.

Therefore, little use as an AAV...

Plus, too disjointed and uncontextual for PRODUCTION and SALES.

Oh well, I was just thinking how to take my interest in digital video and DVD authoring and turn into a way to be around MORE GUNS for MORE TIME and maybe even make a few bucks along the way. Also, I never intended to imply that one could be a STUDENT on the line and film at the same time, as it is impossible. I was thinking of a dedicated video tech doing the shooting while the students did their shooting, pun intended, then providing AAV for the class at the end of the day for REVIEW, if exhaustion didn't hit them first.

Just thinking of ways I could get into more firearm training action doing stuff I enjoy and am good at...

Rmpl