Why we do it.

[Six Feet Under]

Shot my first competition in October 2010, an FDCC match (Florida Defensive Carbine Club, like IDPA with rifles).

I had a blast and placed 30th out of 139 total shooters. I would have gotten 20th place had I not shot a hostage 3x in the head on the first stage due to having the jitters, and missed a target on the last stage due to a little bit of confusion as to whether or not I had already shot it. Next time I'll make sure and put extra holes into whatever ones I'm not sure about!









Planning on shooting both CFDCC and FDCC matches in June, I have the ammo to have shot every match this year so far but I don't have any extra money to replace said ammo, so I'm not going to use it. All of my extra money is going towards the gym and eating clean as of late.

[theblackknight]

Deadeye Steve post this elsewhere and I think it really goes along with a lot of Rob's posts.


"Should you visit most swimming locations you will notice that they have the pool, diving area, lap lane and the wading/kiddies pool.

The swimming area is where the adults are playing. This is like the public range. They can actually get themselves into trouble if they go too deep. They splash around a bit, dive under the water, take a few strokes, and tickle their girl-friend. Like the 7 yard line they are doing some actual shooting, but not much, very controlled, very safe. Not very fast, not very well, and with no real skill evident.

The deep-end with the diving boards is like a private bay on a range. For you unfamiliar- some ranges will rent you a bay for so-many dollars for a few hours and you and your buddies can go shoot a bit more freestyle. It’s for a bit of the show-offs. They don’t swim far. They don’t dive well. Just like the shooters on the private bay don’t have any real talent either. But they get to ratta-tat-tat, do a reload if they like, shoot a bit on the move if they think to do so.

The lap lane is for the actual swimmers; the water athletes. Ranges have their lap lanes. They are the practice sessions for the club members, the small group of (or individual shooters) who make use of the private bays for real practice. They stretch their limits, set up multiple targets, paper and steel, walls, and more to really test out their guns, gear and limits. This group has it's long-range riflemen and it's bulls-eye shooters, it's PPC, IDPA, USPSA/IPSC, it's Steel Challenge. They are the 1500m and 200m freestyle. They are the medley swingers and breast-strokers.

Before the pool opens there might be some lessons being taught. Persons smart enough to know that the water is dangerous enroll themselves or their children in the classes. They learn to get their face wet, do the superman glide. Practice arm motions on the side of the pool until they “get it” and then practice some actual swimming. Some just learn to hold the gun, fire a shot that groups 6” at 7 yards, they can unload and reload. They might remember how to conduct some form of immediate action to correct a malfunction. Interested parties might take additional classes, learn different swimming strokes, the flip turn and the rules of the swimming competition.

Once in a while the pool get’s closed to the public for the swimming meets. Just like shooting matches when the real gunners show up in mass. The rules are in place. The times are kept, and violations are met with disqualifications. Skill and practice and conditioning is self-evident. Nobody is crying about fast suit or shaved legs. Everyone is seeking to actually win. If you finish last, no one wants to hear you snivel about, "that ain't how it's done in water ballet." This ain't water ballet. You showed up to a swim meet. Shut up and swim. If you can't swim or remember the order of the individual medley, that's too bad, guess you really aint' a swimmer.

Some with gravitate towards diving sports, maybe water ballet. While the diver knows how to get through the water, he’s no swimmer. He looks great twisting and turning in the air and doing everything leading up to being in the water. This is the tactical ninja. Nice physique can swim a bit, but his skill lays elsewhere. He can tell you everything about the approach, the leap, and the bounce. He can tell you how the point your toes, how to do the twist or the flip. But, he is out of his element when he hits the water. He can swim a short distance and make it look good for that short distance because he does it enough; don’t ask him to do a 400 IM, though. The water ballet is interesting. Takes strength, the ability to swim but it’s all about coordination with others. These are a lot like the SWAT guys. They line up on the edge of the pool, enter in concert with each other, swim around sneak under water and come up at the same time and make flashy motions with their arms wile treading water. It’s like swimming, but ain’t. Everyone looks good in the same swimsuit and doing the same movements… just don’t ask them to spring a 100m butterfly… they can probably get it done. They just can't do it as well as the guy who actually puts in the laps.

Cross train swimmer with a diver and a water ballet and you have a hell of athlete. But, one skill will probably suffer at expense to another.

The diver has skill, and if you can’t do it, you can’t do it. Just try to do the water-ballet, most of ya will cramp in a couple minutes. It takes dedication and training to be a good diver or be select for the water ballet team. While the skills are associated with swimming- it’s not swimming.

The whole time- the kiddie pool has been sitting over there. The mother’s are over there supervising the kids who can’t swim; they are hooting and hollering, jumping off the 6” lip into the 4” water and splashing water up in the air. This is the internet. Where the kids play and moderators moderate. Sometimes a swimmer visits the kids in the wading pool. The kids in the wading pool can see the real swimmers over there and think that they are doing the same thing when they lay in the few inches of water and pull themselves along the bottom. Maybe an adult takes them to the shallowest end of the pool and lets them walk down the steps until the water is at their chin or jump off the edge to mommy’s waiting arms. But, they are more comfortable in the kiddie pool where they don’t actually have to swim.

Should you ever fall out of the boat in rough water, if the canoe every sinks. Having played in the wading pool won't save your ass. Having a few lessons won't carry you very far. Your diving is irrelevant and so is your water ballet. Having jumped off the 3m board on Saturdays is little consolation as you sink to the bottom. It's the lap swimming that is going to get you to the bank. Having shot some matches is inoculation against panic as the cold water seeps in. When you realize it's do or die time, the lap swimmer kicks off his shoes, puts his face in the water and starts stroking for shore- he already knows what to do and how to do. And, more importantly, that he can."

[Jesse Tischauser]

Originally Posted by Hersh

We have one of those at a local club. He wears "tactical" polos, "tactical" vests and probably even "tactical" socks and continously advises me which mags to run in my 1911. That's always confused me since he doesn't even own a 1911.

Back on topic though, being able to see improvement in my shooting is the sweetest benefit of competetion. Outshooting "tactical guy" is fun too!

Well said! I have about as much need for anything tactical as I do for my third nipple but I can perform weapon manipulations faster than just about anyone that uses their guns to save lives. Why not utilize competitions as a FUN way to become more proficient with a tool that might save your life one day?

[theblackknight]

Originally Posted by Jesse Tischauser

Well said! I have about as much need for anything tactical as I do for my third nipple but I can perform weapon manipulations faster than just about anyone that uses their guns to save lives. Why not utilize competitions as a FUN way to become more proficient with a tool that might save your life one day?

Because that means putting aside your ego,past accomplishments, your ribbon stack etc etc do compete in a largly objective setting means finding out where you really stand against all these "non tactical" engineers,farmers, accountants, and professional shooters. Timers, target zones and yard/fault line don't lie, but tactical shooters do and will hide behind the gear, canival type stanges"not realiztik yo!", the whole"breeds bad habits that will get you killed in the streets" and any other mental barriers they can use to insulate them from the truth that their skills might be mediocre at best.

The good trainers, and shooters out there simply don't hide behind their resume,they post videos on youtube of their standards,or shooting others standards, or actual match results.

[Littlelebowski]

Originally Posted by theblackknight

Because that means putting aside your ego,past accomplishments, your ribbon stack etc etc do compete in a largly objective setting means finding out where you really stand against all these "non tactical" engineers,farmers, accountants, and professional shooters. Timers, target zones and yard/fault line don't lie, but tactical shooters do and will hide behind the gear, canival type stanges"not realiztik yo!", the whole"breeds bad habits that will get you killed in the streets" and any other mental barriers they can use to insulate them from the truth that their skills might be mediocre at best.

The good trainers, and shooters out there simply don't hide behind their resume,they post videos on youtube of their standards,or shooting others standards, or actual match results.

No offense dude, but when are you going to post some videos, scores, and drill times? I hear you complain a lot and I empathize with a lot of your complaints though I don't agree with the tone. How about practicing what you preach? How about posting something positive for once?

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by The Archangel

My FIRST 3-gun match.


2. A LOT of people don't know what cover is. Shooting over the hood of a car is NOT cover. I guess that's the difference between a game and real life. I used this game as an additional training opportunity. It slowed me down a tad bit, but I don't want to develop bad habits.

]

A match is not the time to use tactics. You will not win a match against a timer using good tactics so don't try. Go and have fun and shoot the match for what it is. Its a chance to see how well you can shoot fast and accurately. As for the cover comment there are times in real life where you will lay across the hood of your car to take a shot not so much to use the car for cover but rather to use it as a rest. It dependson the situation. Are you are responding officer who see the threat and he is about to hurt someone else and you need to get a accurate shot off now. Then use what ever rest you can quickly. If your using the car for cover you need to be hunkered down behind the axels/engine block area shooting around or under the car. Not as accurate or as fast but it has its applicaitons. There is no one answer for every situation.
Pat

[theblackknight]

Originally Posted by Littlelebowski

No offense dude, but when are you going to post some videos, scores, and drill times? I hear you complain a lot and I empathize with a lot of your complaints though I don't agree with the tone. How about practicing what you preach? How about posting something positive for once?

The tone is purely self hate, bc I used to be one of those guys.

6 months cold with rifle, mag in pocket, a couple dry runs before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Cw...e_gdata_player

I also completely bombed the NC section match this weekend. Would have shot around 80% of winner, but I decided to hit 3 no shoots and missed 2 targets during a walk thru.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

[Littlelebowski]

Good response, TBK. Keep up the self improvement. I too, am trying to compete more but am limited on matches due to time so I only catch local ones.

[TheBelly]

I've only ever shot in local matches. I can tell improvement happens when I lay down to fire my military qualifications and I start to think, "this should definitely be more realistic." Fortunately, I now know how bad I suck at real life weapons usage, and not just laying in the prone shooting a silhouette.

[theblackknight]

Just a shooting rant here: All mental stuff aside, I have met many people in the defensive shooting realm who I think over analyze tactics (mostly bad shooters who i think are trying to make up for their shooting). Now I'm not GI Joe but I have studied the details of many gunfights and I believe (again all mental stuff aside.....which is THEE most important) that most of the time the victor was the guy who was just faster, more accurate and flat out better with a gun. Now don't get me wrong I am all about tactics and I've got some back ground in them. I just think because of the fact they are much less black and white (where good shooting is not) many people decide to focus too much on them and in turn less on being more skillful with their weapon.

-Bob Vogel

There is a large group of people who hold this type of belief. You will find plenty of LEO's and civilians who have been told competition is bad and believe it. Some cite the lack of tactics and others the specialized equipment. The underlying thing that I have seen is that these folks see themselves as "serious" people and competition shooters as "gamers" who are not serious. No matter how good the competition shooter is he cannot be seen as "serious" because he plays a game; he must be discounted and rejected. The most vocal of this crowd is the trainer who wants to teach them. This group is much larger than all the competitive shooters combined so there is a lot of MONEY to be made catering to them. That is why the debate rages on and the belief that competition is bad is promoted and protected. Just follow the money to find a school near you to be taught the evils of comp!

-Keith Garcia

[Jesse Tischauser]

Nice!

Mind if I use your post elsewhere?

[theblackknight]

They arnt mine dude, I just connected the dots. I posted it on doodie too.

BTW, how many forums you on? Stag should buy you a nice computer chair for all the seat time you get

[Jesse Tischauser]

Originally Posted by theblackknight

They arnt mine dude, I just connected the dots. I posted it on doodie too.

BTW, how many forums you on? Stag should buy you a nice computer chair for all the seat time you get

I am in every gun forum, literally. If somebody's asking questions about 3 gun I get notification. Probably 100 different ones by now.

I have several Stag chairs but I could use a Winchester, Benelli, and a federal chair next.

[theblackknight]

Bobby K, Wes, I had a few paragraphs written to counter the arguments of this Bob Harvey idiot, but my computer acts up when I’m on Facebook, and I lost it. I won’t try to type it all again, but I will say a few things. As you both know, I spent 11 years in 1st Ranger Battalion, deploying to combat 8 times. I am also an active 3 Gun and USPSA competitor. Unless you are assigned to CAG or SEAL Team 6, the marksmanship training you receive while in the military is fairly basic, even within the Ranger Battalions. Once you are there for a few training cycles, most peoples’ skills plateau. Most of your limited range time ends up getting dedicated towards teaching the newer guys the basics. If you want to continue to improve your skills, it’s on you. Getting involved with USPSA or 3 Gun is one of the best ways to fine-tune many skills that you never get to test while on the firing line during military or “tactical” training. Not everything in competition applies to combat, but most does. Rapidly presenting the weapon system, shooting on the move, entering/leaving positions (barricades/cover), addressing various target exposures, and rapid target transitions are all skills that apply directly to real-life scenarios. During most military or tactical training, you have a firing line full of shooters, and you have one target to address. If some tactical trainer suggests staying away from any type of competition, he is probably very narrow-minded. He probably has about a dozen drills he demonstrates every class, and has been doing them for years. His skill-set is likely very limited, and he would make an ass of himself if taken out of his “comfort zone.” People like Bob love to preach about how many years they have been a tactical trainer, and how they know exactly how to survive gunfights. Yet, most of them have never been in a gunfight, or any situation that actually puts their skills to the test. I haven’t been in dozens of gunfights, but have been in a few, and it was me versus a few immediate threats. I feel the skills I gained on my own through my competition experience helped me engage those threats very rapidly and effectively, and I don’t feel I would’ve been as rapid and efficient if I had been relying on only military training and a few bad classes taught by nobodies like Bob. I strongly suggest routinely testing and fine-tuning your skills through competition. The best trainers are the ones that have real-life AND competition experience. The worst trainers are the ones who do nothing but preach about “real gunfights.”

Dustin Rademacher,stolen from a epic FB troll session

[theblackknight]

Here’s a little something to get you inspired this Saturday morning! Remember that performance is performance, whether you are at the square range or the two way range. Don’t hide under the mantle of being “tactical” and underperforming because technical skills are “for gamers.” Train hard and win.

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=2654