Daniel Defense
Panteao Productions

Go Back   M4Carbine.net Forums > Training > Competitive Shooting

Competitive Shooting Matches, related gear and training

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 10-12-07, 07:13
Robb Jensen's Avatar
Robb Jensen Offline
STAFF
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (14)
Tips for shooting the IDPA classifer

These tips were written by Tim Bacus, Tim is the guy who built the gun I shoot in USPSA Limited (my STI). If you want to see what the classifier looks like it's on page 67 of the IDPA rule book here: http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf




Here's a few things that should help you shoot your best score.

Stage One

Strings 1, 2 & 3
Make sure you stop the gun for the head shots. Stopping the gun when you raise it to fire the head shot will take maybe .25 extra seconds, one head miss will add 2.5 seconds, don't miss.

String 4
Don't rush this string. Sight alignment is marginally important but trigger control is a must. Really concentrate on the trigger control.

String 5
Again, concentrate on trigger control and be sure to stop the gun on the center target. I see a lot of shooters get good hits on the first and last target but hit the -3 on the center target, not good.

String 6
The shooting is pretty basic, just see the front sight on the center of the target for each shot. Drop your slide with the slide release after the reload, do not slingshot it! Depending on skill level slingshoting takes anywere from 1 - 3 seconds longer to do.

String 7
Same as string 5, stop the gun on the midle target. Also since you are firing 2 shots per target don't double tap. Get a sight picture for each shot. Trying to save .1 on a split makes no sense if you drop a shot into the -1 zone doing it.

Stage One Notes

The goal for stage one should be to drop no more than 2 - 4 points. The shooting is easy, just avoid the desire to go faster than you can.

Stage Two


String 1

Take slow baby steps. There is no requirement to take large steps or to move quickly. Some shooters will take several large steps before shooting to try and get closer to the target, don't, it's slower.

String 2

Same as string one, slow baby steps wile retreating.String two should be faster than string one. For both strings, sight alignment and trigger control!

String 3

The first big string, 12 shots total. Don't be in a rush to be done. Shoot for the -0 zone, not the whole target. Same comments about the slide lock reload from Stage One, String 6. And remember, your not trying to hit the target, your trying to hit the -0 zone.

String 4

Six shots strong hand at 10 yards, have I mentioned trigger control? The sight alignment needed to hit an 8" circle at 10 yards is not that precise, the trigger control is. Concentrate on a smooth press to the rear, don't slap the trigger.Again, a quarter second taken to insure a good shot can save you 1.5 seconds by avaioding the -3 zone on the target.

Stage Two Notes

Stage two is 30 shots, shoot to fast and you'll drop a lot of points. Concentrate on trigger control and you'll do fine.Try not to drop more than 6 - 8 points.

Stage Three

Stage Notes First this Time

Stage Three is the classifier. Many shooters will end up with a longer time for stage three than for stages one and two combined. Stage Three is a test of pure shooting ability, sight alignment and trigger control. It's hard to give advice to new shooters for stage three because many simply don't have the skills yet to do well on it. Hell, I see it kick ass on experienced A and B Class IPSC shooters.
Accuracy is paramount on stage three. Shots that would be a -1 on Stages One and Two will miss the target on stage three. Shooting wise, really focus on the front sight and do perfect trigger pulls, straight to the rear and don't slap it. You must shoot to hit the -0 zone, simply aiming at the 'target' will not cut it. Do not look at the targets wile shooting, this causes your shots to go low, concentrate on the front sight!

String 1

Do a retention reload, it's faster on this string, don't go for speed, try to be smooth and in control.

String 2

A tac load will be slightly faster if you move as soon as you insert the new mag and stow the used mag wile moving forward. If you are more likely to do the complete reload behind cover then it will be faster to do a retention reload. Run to the barrel, you get no style points for crouching or moving 'tactically'. Don't rush the barrel shots, your still 15 yards back, front sight, press.

String 3

Almost done! Don't rush the last six shots because your in a hurry to be done. Draw and go kneeling, get that good first sight picture and fire accurate shots.


Well, I hope this is helpful. Let us now how you do!

------------------
Tim Bacus
Bacus Custom
__________________
FFL/SOT armorer
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 10-12-07, 08:19
Sam's Avatar
Sam Offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,458
iTrader: (13)
Deleted copyrighted (?) materials.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 10-12-07, 18:24
rhino's Avatar
rhino Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 788
iTrader: (0)
Not missing the head shots is something that needs to be repeated, because it's not hard to hit them, but really easy to miss them!

A couple of missed head shots can be the difference between sharpshooter and expert ... or so I've heard.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 10-12-07, 19:15
Robb Jensen's Avatar
Robb Jensen Offline
STAFF
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (14)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino View Post
Not missing the head shots is something that needs to be repeated, because it's not hard to hit them, but really easy to miss them!

A couple of missed head shots can be the difference between sharpshooter and expert ... or so I've heard.
Or as in my last IDPA classifier 1 missed headshot was the difference between Expert and Master.
__________________
FFL/SOT armorer
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 10-13-07, 17:42
rhino's Avatar
rhino Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 788
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
Or as in my last IDPA classifier 1 missed headshot was the difference between Expert and Master.
And of course it works the other way too ...

If you don't want your classification to go up (for whatever reason) and you don't want your sandbagging to be as obvious as it might otherwise be, missing one or all three of those headshots can do the trick! Haha!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 12-29-07, 21:35
Bryan W Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)
I shot my first IDPA match today, which was a classifier match - made master in SSP with about 4 seconds to spare. Almost everyone on my squad had misses on those head shot targets......
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 12-30-07, 16:49
rhino's Avatar
rhino Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 788
iTrader: (0)
Good job. What is your USPSA classification (if you have one)?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 12-30-07, 19:44
Bryan W Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)
GM -Limited
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 12-30-07, 20:32
Robb Jensen's Avatar
Robb Jensen Offline
STAFF
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (14)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan W View Post
GM -Limited
Awesome!

I find that most B class shooters in USPSA can make Master in IDPA. Maybe Rhino is right, maybe I am sandbaggin' I'm less than 1.5% from A class in Production.
__________________
FFL/SOT armorer
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 12-30-07, 20:39
Bryan W Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)
I don't know a whole lot about IDPA other than I want to try it - I'd like to shoot a few regional matches then maybe the Nationals if I can. I mostly just shoot production in USPSA right now because I like shooting stock guns. We have a few IDPA master class shooters that shoot some of our local matches and they are B class shooters.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 12-30-07, 21:09
Robb Jensen's Avatar
Robb Jensen Offline
STAFF
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (14)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan W View Post
I don't know a whole lot about IDPA other than I want to try it - I'd like to shoot a few regional matches then maybe the Nationals if I can. I mostly just shoot production in USPSA right now because I like shooting stock guns. We have a few IDPA master class shooters that shoot some of our local matches and they are B class shooters.
So you're find the theory of B class (USPSA) / Master (IDPA) holds pretty true too.

Welcome to www.M4carbine.net Bryan!

If you have any shooting tips please share !
__________________
FFL/SOT armorer
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 12-30-07, 21:15
Bryan W Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)
I think the IDPA classifier is a pretty decent standards test - There are some great USPSA shooters that got their start in IDPA too - Bob Vogel, Ben Stoeger, and Sevigny. Those guys are all upper end GM's in USPSA now so I think the accuracy foundation that IDPA teaches is great. Those guys learned how to be accurate first then fast second and so they have the correct foundation to be upper end shooters in both sports.

I've been lurking here for a while - just got around to posting. It's a great forum, btw.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 12-31-07, 12:02
rhino's Avatar
rhino Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 788
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan W View Post
GM -Limited
Heh! I knew you were either B-class or better to do it on the first try. Welcome to this little corner!

I am "C-class forever!" in USPSA and a pretty lazy "sharpshooter" in IDPA. I know I could shoot Expert if I practiced the classifier a couple of times, but I don't see any point in it as it doesn't predict match performance very well. Shooting a Master score would be a challenge for me since I lose so much time on the movement to the barrel and going down on a knee on stage 3.

And gotM4 ... yeah, you're totally sandbaggin'! I'd have to bust my butt practicing for a few months to get to B-class, but getting an IDPA Expert classification would be . . . less labor intensive.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 12-31-07, 18:17
Harv Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Neenah,WI
Posts: 774
iTrader: (1)
Reading this thread reinforces my reasons why I don't get "Classified" in any shooting sport. Cause it's mostly about titles and not performance at the drop of a Hat.

If I need my skill set (Which is why I train the way I do) to defend myself or the family.. the bad guy will care little what class I'm at.. and If I'm too slow.. I doubt he will allow me to "reshoot" until I get a better score...

Which is what I thought "Defensive" pistol shooting was always about....

And I know what Sandbagging is. and it amazes me that I know of shooters who do it just so they can be at the top of a certain class which looks good for the ego vs. being in the middle to the bottom of the class they really should be in...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 12-31-07, 19:04
Robb Jensen's Avatar
Robb Jensen Offline
STAFF
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (14)
Some of us view training as training and competition as competition.
__________________
FFL/SOT armorer
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 12-31-07, 20:47
Bryan W Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harv View Post
Reading this thread reinforces my reasons why I don't get "Classified" in any shooting sport. Cause it's mostly about titles and not performance at the drop of a Hat.

If I need my skill set (Which is why I train the way I do) to defend myself or the family.. the bad guy will care little what class I'm at.. and If I'm too slow.. I doubt he will allow me to "reshoot" until I get a better score...

Which is what I thought "Defensive" pistol shooting was always about....

And I know what Sandbagging is. and it amazes me that I know of shooters who do it just so they can be at the top of a certain class which looks good for the ego vs. being in the middle to the bottom of the class they really should be in...

Harv,

You seem pretty passionate about your position here and I totally respect that - Doing your own thing in terms of training is cool - only you can determine what's best for you regarding this issue. Let me say though that if you think you can reach the upper levels of competition without being able to perform on demand, you really don't understand what it takes to be an upper end shooter. Maybe I totally misunderstood what you were saying and you're just showing frustration with the sandbagger issue - not sure.

Competition is a game, but these games do teach a person a whole lot about how the shooting process works. It's a whole lot more effective in the long run, for many reasons, than just shooting drills to keep the skill level at PAR.

I've never really understood the anti-competition mindset and I don't drink the Kool-Aid when it comes to the thinking that it breeds a mindset that will get you hurt in a real defensive situation. I've been a LEO for 23 years and shooting competitively has enhanced my shooting skills substantially.

Other than those few comments you have my total respect for doing your own thing brother...at least you're training and that's a lot more than most people do.

Cheers,
Bryan
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 01-01-08, 00:02
rhino's Avatar
rhino Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 788
iTrader: (0)
Maybe we need another round of "IPSC will get you KILLED!" articles in the gun magazines to bolster the anti-competition sentiment. It seems to be waning recently.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 01-01-08, 01:06
Robb Jensen's Avatar
Robb Jensen Offline
STAFF
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (14)
To know yet to think that one does not know is best;
Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.

-Lao Tzu
__________________
FFL/SOT armorer
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 01-01-08, 11:48
9x19's Avatar
9x19 Offline
retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 309
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harv View Post
Reading this thread reinforces my reasons why I don't get "Classified" in any shooting sport. Cause it's mostly about titles and not performance at the drop of a Hat.

If I need my skill set (Which is why I train the way I do) to defend myself or the family.. the bad guy will care little what class I'm at.. and If I'm too slow.. I doubt he will allow me to "reshoot" until I get a better score...

Which is what I thought "Defensive" pistol shooting was always about....

And I know what Sandbagging is. and it amazes me that I know of shooters who do it just so they can be at the top of a certain class which looks good for the ego vs. being in the middle to the bottom of the class they really should be in...
This particular forum is for and about competition. If you don't compete and you don't plan to compete, and only want to criticize people who do, then you have nothing of value to add to it. Perhaps you should utilize the other forums to discuss how you "train the way you do."

As far as sandbagging, I am fairly certain that there are no true sandbaggers participating in this thread. Move along with your .
__________________
John 8:32 (KJV) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, "Well, what do you need?" -- Stephen Wright
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 01-29-08, 11:16
M4Super90 Offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denton, Texas
Posts: 9
iTrader: (0)
Here's a link to some tips that are very similar to the above post our local club's webmaster put together on the classifier for those that are interested:
http://www.ccidpa.org/clastips.html
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.