When to disengage and reengage safety

ruchik · #1 07-06-11, 11:14

So I have a new FNX-9, which allows for a cocked and locked mode, which is what I will be training for. But I have never used a handgun that has that feature, I'm only familiar with striker-fired pistols with no external safeties. At which point do I disengage the safety? As I'm drawing, or once the gun is in high compressed ready as it's being pushed out? And whenever I do come back into high compressed ready, am I supposed to engage the safety again?

HuttoAg96 · #2 07-06-11, 12:34

I practice thumbing off the safety transitioning from position 1 to position 2 (out of the holster to retention position). You might have to shoot from retention, so I don't know that you can do it any later than that unless you do it AT position 2.

Failure2Stop · #3 07-06-11, 13:22

Safety off as the finger hits the trigger.
Safety on when there is nothing else to be shot.
Sweeping the safety off is easy and fits into other actions that have to be taken prior to shooting (establish grip, extend arm(s), place finger on trigger, etc), so you aren't losing time by knocking the switch. You will lose some time/precision balance if you have a decocking safety when it comes time for the first shot (DA), but a little training will help tremendously with that.
The safety/decocker is a tool to give you a bit more control over the firing mechanism when you don't need to shoot.

A whole lot of places get mired in the "when to decock/safe" rules (mostly self-imposed) instead of simply focusing on the "was it safe or not?" concept.
Take two steps with a cocked pistol without pointing it at anyone that didn't need it pointed at them? Safe.
Holster a cocked weapon without a safety? Probably not a good idea.
Point a loaded weapon at an innocent/team member? UNsafe regardless of whether it was on "safe" or not.

DocGKR · #4 07-06-11, 13:54

F2S hit it on the head. The safety stays on until you have an acceptable sight picture of your target and finger is moving to the trigger to shoot--typically somewhere during the press out, but it is depends on circumstances. When the weapon comes off the target and it is reasonable to do so, put the safety on--this includes during reloads. Use critical judgment and adapt to the situation. For example, while doing an emergency reload under fire when every split second counts, maybe using the safety is not going to help your cause. On the other hand, when things are a bit less hectic and you have other friendlies/innocents bystanders around you, it might be prudent to flick the safety on when reloading, as it can't hurt and might help.

ICANHITHIMMAN · #5 07-06-11, 14:00

My safety comes off during my draw stroke, If my weapon comes out the safety is off!

Jim D · #6 07-06-11, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocGKR

On the other hand, when things are a bit less hectic and you have other friendlies/innocents bystanders around you, it might be prudent to flick the safety on when reloading, as it can't hurt and might help.

Not to be argumentative, but this only works on a handful of weapons.

This won't be an option on any Glock, XD, M&P (without thumb safety), Beretta (not practical), TDA Sig (can't decock with slide to rear), DAK Sig, LEM HK, or AK pattern rifle (not practical). A thumb safety on a 1911 won't engage with the slide to the rear either.

Does this then mean that these weapons are no longer "Safe" for use in combat roles?

My guess is no. So, why then have 2 sets of standards for how one does reloads?

I think the LAV mantra of "Finger straight, muzzle aware" hits the nail on the head in this arena.

DocGKR · #7 07-06-11, 17:39

CoolBreeze--guess you missed the part where I mentioned to use the safety when, "it is reasonable to do so" and also where I stated, "Use critical judgment and adapt to the situation". Since using the safety is taught by folks like Paul Howe, AWG, and some of our Nation's premier SOF units firearms training cadre, I think I'll pay attention to what they are saying...

Jim D · #8 07-06-11, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocGKR

CoolBreeze--guess you missed the part where I mentioned to use the safety when, "it is reasonable to do so" and also where I stated, "Use critical judgment and adapt to the situation". Since using the safety is taught by folks like Paul Howe, AWG, and some of our Nation's premier SOF units firearms training cadre, I think I'll pay attention to what they are saying...

No, I got that part, and I'm not against using the safety.

The question I posed is: "is it worth discarding weapon systems that don't support using that procedure?" (safety on during a reload)

And if not, then why is it important to do it on only the weapons that DO support it.

bodyarmorguy · #9 07-06-11, 19:39

This is when it does NOT come off.

http://www.youtube.com/user/derekgre.../1/zYvAxLX6OzE

My personal training doctrine is that the mechanical safety, such as on a 1911, AR platform, MP5, etc., stay in the "On" position unless the muzzle is indexed on target such as shooting from a "speed rock" position or unless my sights are on target.