Getting started reloading for M4/AR15 - advice requested

BravoGolf59 · #1 10-11-11, 21:44

I have been reloading for bolt action rifle for a while and feel like I understand that. I recently participated in a club-level carbine match and really enjoyed it. If I could reload ammo for it, I could probably afford to participate each month, and this leads to the questions.

It takes approximately 120 rounds for a match. Most targets are 15-20 yds. or less, with some 50 yd. targets thrown in. I used AE223H, which seemed to work well and not have the recoil of XM193.

My big question is... [strikeout]how can I load for reasonable accuracy and be able to use mixed cases?[/strikeout]

Really, my question is what process (as in load development) do I use to arrive at the best load that works for mixed cases and is not dangerous? I was not asking what press to use!

I have several 20 round boxes of Remington, Winchester, Federal, Hornady, Privi, etc. fired cases. I also have several Lake City cases separated by year. Some of the LC range in quantities from 5, 10, 20, up to 50 to 80 for a given year.

Additionally, I have Hornady 55gr. FMJBTs to use, and probably Hodgdon H322 powder as my TAC is getting low.

I appreciate and look forward to your advice!

Baedarlboo · #2 10-11-11, 22:51

At the distance you'll be shooting, it shouldn't be hard. Just run them through a progressive press. Now if you're shooting for 200+ yards and accuracy, you'll have to spend more time in case prep and powder charge. And for the economy, just use min charge on powder. It seems this is more of a quantity then quality situation.

simple1 · #3 10-11-11, 23:10

Baedarlboo is spot on.

Here is a comparison of progressive press reloads vs. Black Hills red box 55 gr. 10 rounds at 50yds using AimPoint Micro T1.

This is obviously not precision shooting - simply illustrates that you can load on a progressive as good as you can buy off the shelf.

Black Hills

Reloads. Head stamps mixed PMC, RP. Hornady 55 gr FMJBT 25 gr H335. The one flyer was me.

markm · #4 10-12-11, 09:57

I have no idea why black hills gets such a wonderful reputation in the first place.

Every time I put their ammo in some instrumentation, it shows me that it's really not that good... and EASILY beaten by a hand loader with half a clue.

simple1 · #5 10-12-11, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

... and EASILY beaten by a hand loader with half a clue.

That would be me

markm · #6 10-12-11, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by simple1

That would be me

Me too. The more I learn... the more work hand loading becomes.

Sometimes I wish I was back loading blissfully ignorant.

simple1 · #7 10-12-11, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

Me too. The more I learn... the more work hand loading becomes.

Sometimes I wish I was back loading blissfully ignorant.

My reloading is simple because my requirements are simple. Almost trained monkey level really.
But I'm wanting to do some longer range shooting and I'll have to put more work into it at that point.

Your comment about Black Hills is interesting though. Those 10 rounds were the first I'd fired from what I thought was my "good" stash. I was surprised that it faired so poorly.

markm · #8 10-12-11, 12:46

I was at that point too. I just loaded practice ammo and was fine.

If you ever get to loading precision ammo, you'll go nuts. These accurate ammo gurus will get into your head like a neurologist.....

Then you'll be buying all kinds of competition dies, and guages, etc.

BravoGolf59 · #9 10-12-11, 21:07

Opening post has been edited. Not really interested in what press to use, but I can see how you might get that out of my question. I am interested in how to do the load development to achieve my goal of using multiple brands of cases, safely.

Baedarlboo · #10 10-12-11, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baedarlboo

At the distance you'll be shooting, it shouldn't be hard. Just run them through a progressive press. Now if you're shooting for 200+ yards and accuracy, you'll have to spend more time in case prep and powder charge. And for the economy, just use min charge on powder. It seems this is more of a quantity then quality situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BravoGolf59

Opening post has been edited. Not really interested in what press to use, but I can see how you might get that out of my question. I am interested in how to do the load development to achieve my goal of using multiple brands of cases, safely.

Read what I have in bold. For the the distance you will be shooting, min charge is more than enough.
If you want to "develop" a load for certain accuracy (at distance), or velocity that's another story...this requires time prepping cases with matching head stamps and a chrony.
There is no one best load, every gun is going to prefer something different.
Again, since you're after quantity at 50yrds max, min charge (powder of your choice), cheapest projectiles, cheapest primer, and your mixed brass is going to be just fine. Try an purchase in bulk to save.

markm · #11 10-12-11, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BravoGolf59

Opening post has been edited. Not really interested in what press to use, but I can see how you might get that out of my question. I am interested in how to do the load development to achieve my goal of using multiple brands of cases, safely.

It's not critical with .223 loads. There isn't a load I've run in 15 years that required me to sort brass off.

.308 is where you'll get massive case volume differences. I mean... I've been able to look inside of different 308 brass and sort them with the head stamps down just by how full the powder was inside of them.

.223 case volume variances are negligible with almost all kinds of brass. PMP being the exception if I remember correctly.

BravoGolf59 · #12 10-13-11, 00:07

markm, thanks for your response. Would you consider commercial brass and LC brass to be different enough to be of concern? Also, would you go minimum charge or middle or something else?

Thanks again.

Baedarlboo · #13 10-13-11, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BravoGolf59

markm, thanks for your response. Would you consider commercial brass and LC brass to be different enough to be of concern? Also, would you go minimum charge or middle or something else?

Thanks again.

Just wondering, how much reloading have you already done?
You state that you're running low on TAC, so that tells me you have already loaded some, but the questions you're asking shows how little reading/research you've done.

Your question has been answered many times over. markm answered your question (again) and yet you ask the same question (again).

Honestly, I'm a little concerned for your safety and others around you.
Might be better off buying Wolf ammo...

markm · #14 10-13-11, 09:07

Commercial brass and LC/Mil brass are completely interchangeable. Mil brass has a slightly larger capacity, but it's negligible.

Absolutely NO need to load min for mixed brass. I don't load MAX either.. just because it's senseless to shoot super hot ammo for practice.

I run mid to hot loads for bulk ball ammo.

BravoGolf59 · #15 10-13-11, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

Commercial brass and LC/Mil brass are completely interchangeable. Mil brass has a slightly larger capacity, but it's negligible.

Absolutely NO need to load min for mixed brass. I don't load MAX either.. just because it's senseless to shoot super hot ammo for practice.

I run mid to hot loads for bulk ball ammo.

Thanks - this helps a lot!

markm · #16 10-14-11, 09:39

Now when you get to 308, brass sorting is huge.

I've hand scaled powder in mixed brass that I could sort by looking into the cases. I mean... you could see a huge difference in how high the powder filled the case.

BravoGolf59 · #17 10-14-11, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by markm

I've hand scaled powder in mixed brass that I could sort by looking into the cases. I mean... you could see a huge difference in how high the powder filled the case.

That's pretty amazing! I'm just now gathering components to do .308, but it will be for a bolt rifle. Currently, I'm doing .223 bolt rifle, so I sort the headstamps, but I don't go to the extent of weighing cases and bullets. When, I start powdering up .308, I'll have to visually compare some different cases with a given charge of powder in them.

Thanks again for your replies!

markm · #18 10-14-11, 10:08

Yeah... weighing cases is absurd.

I was stunned at how much different 308 case volumes could be. We've since gone to just loading Lapua 308 brass.... and some FC (Federal) for experimental loads or gas gun loads.

Nightvisionary · #19 10-15-11, 23:18

I have had great luck with the Hornady 55 grain FMJ. With mixed brass I generally get under 2 MOA through my non free float chrome lined Spikes mid length.

BravoGolf59 · #20 10-16-11, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightvisionary

I have had great luck with the Hornady 55 grain FMJ. With mixed brass I generally get under 2 MOA through my non free float chrome lined Spikes mid length.

Great to hear! Thanks for posting!