Press checking...

[C4IGrant]

In this months SWAT Mag, there is an article talking about this subject. The author of the article is on this forum and have asked him to comment on it so as to not hijack another thread.

Before he responds, what do you guys think about press checking? Good idea or not needed?




C4

[Hawkeye]

Yes and no. I am interested in seeing some other thoughts though. The article in question was a good one.

[Don Robison]

I think it's fine for an admin or preparing for the day setting. IMO it's just part of getting ready for the day. I do think it can get out of hand when you're loading and unloading 30 times a day on the range. I read the article also and even though he has some valid points about using the chamber indicators, not all handguns are equipped with them, so I prefer to visually check. It makes my caveman brain feel warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't chastise someone one way or the other though. I just view it as a preference item.

[1 Source]

Is a "Press Check" the same as a chamber check but mostly only used on a 1911? If yes, read below.
If no, disregard this post.

I think a chamber checking function to verify the condition of a weapon is universally regarded as a good thing.

The older method of checking with a 1911 by pinching the triggerguard and the spring plug is however, IMHO less than optimum.

I know it works but there are other metods that work just as well and without the attendant risk of the fingers inside the trigger guard and a fraction of an inch away from the muzzle.

Again, it works but is not optimal.

[Rob Pincus]

Grant,

I just got your PM and I wanted to take the opportunity to thank you for reading SWAT and focus the responses a little more for those who haven't read the article.

There is a huge difference between the practical and somewhat reasonable press check at the beginning of the shift or before leaving the last safe & secure and the habit of press checking EVERY TIME you go to the ready position. The latter is one that has become "important" because of competition and administrative range habits. Also, I think it falls into the category of a "cool guy skill" especially if you can do it fast or in some overly complicated way (one-handed-vertical-with-a-brass-touch, for example).

I've seen more guys cover themselves and/or induce malfunctions than I have ever seen find an empty chamber. Quite frankly, I have a real problem with a guy who at 2pm, after 5-6 hrs on a hot range, doesn't know whether or not his gun is loaded. That guy scares me a little.

I sometimes ask the constant pressers if they also go into their crawl spaces everytime they flush to check for puddles..... Unless you have a catastrophic failure of the firearm, the main reason you wouldn't have a round in the chamber would be a failure to seat the magazine or fully rack the slide. Simple press check that works with the physics of the gun (as opposed to taking it halfway out of battery and them pushing it closed): Tap the mag, Rack the slide. If you're on a tactical training range, that is a great time to find out that your gun is broke. If you've done that and maybe even pulled on the mag one last time "just to be sure", drive on!

In a PM, Grant also referenced another thread discussing the possibility of using loaded chamber indicators to put ones mind at ease. Some guns, like the M&P and the XD have great indicators. When I did the initial review of the XD for SWAT, I even mentioned that it has the only one I would trust by feel with gloves on. While these are great options on some guns, I still say that you should know the condition of your gun and use your time on the training range to find out if you're doing something dramatically wrong, not for administrative complex motor skills that have no place being used during a dynamic critical incident.

Yes, we've seen people do press checks after slide lock reloads during scenario runs because of the bad habit. it's not pretty.

So, the question isn't just one that gets a "yes or no" it's 1. When? 2. How? 3. Why?

My answers are:
1. Beginning of "shift" or other admin time, in the absence of a reliable loaded chamber indicator. NOT on the line during tactical training.
2. By tapping the mag and racking the slide again (topping off as appropriate).
3. If you're gun has been proven to work and you've followed the proper loading procedures, this is the big question. You can only use "just to be sure" so many times before you start sounding paranoid.


****Edit in response to Donr's post*****

The reason I do discourage those who "constant check" as a habit is because, as noted above, I have seen them doit out of habit during clearly inappropriate times.

*********

-RJP

[Don Robison]

I sometimes ask the constant pressers if they also go into their crawl spaces everytime they flush to check for puddles...

Thanks,
You just made me laugh pretty damn hard which has been hard to do the last couple of days.
Also thanks for the article. It made me think about a few things and affirmed a few of my own thoughts.

[Hawkeye]

Rob,

Again, great article. Your post above is spot on and in line with how I stand on the subject.

There is a huge difference between the practical and somewhat reasonable press check at the beginning of the shift or before leaving the last safe & secure and the habit of press checking EVERY TIME you go to the ready position. -RJP

Exactly my thoughts. I personally do it more with my AR than with my handguns. Example being... I have had to grab my AR (at home) at night on more than one occasion, and chamber a round quietly and in the dark. I will slightly retract the charging handle and feel for a chambered round. Was first taught this by someone it appears is a mutual acquaintance (R. A.)
Of course, and alternate way is to remove the mag and feel for the top round to have changed sides.

Doing it on the range/in class for every reload or presentation....... no way.

[John_Wayne777]

In this months SWAT Mag, there is an article talking about this subject. The author of the article is on this forum and have asked him to comment on it so as to not hijack another thread.

Before he responds, what do you guys think about press checking? Good idea or not needed?

I haven't read the article, but I've gotten a click instead of a bang on more than one occasion when stepping up to run a drill.

Personally if I am about to depend on a weapon for serious social purposes I give it a decent once over including a press check to make sure there is a round chambered and I eject the magazine to make sure it is full. I then make sure the weapon goes back into battery and that the magazine is properly inserted and then I'll put it in the holster.

I also carry a backup 90% + of the time and I've been called paranoid many times before, so I'm comfortable with the title.

If I'm on the training range I don't often do one. I do admin checks on my mags quite often, though....

[jmart]

So, the question isn't just one that gets a "yes or no" it's 1. When? 2. How? 3. Why?

My answers are:
1. Beginning of "shift" or other admin time, in the absence of a reliable loaded chamber indicator. NOT on the line during tactical training.
2. By tapping the mag and racking the slide again (topping off as appropriate).
3. If you're gun has been proven to work and you've followed the proper loading procedures, this is the big question. You can only use "just to be sure" so many times before you start sounding paranoid.

-RJP

Do you make any distinction between checking the carbine vs the sidearm? I know Pat preaches checking the carbine, although he teached making a note of the position of the top round in the mag, charge weapon, remove mag and verify the top round has changed position. Then push-pull. This of course for admin purposes, not after speed reloads in the heat of battle (as you point out in your piece).

I'm not sure if the idea of checking after every reload, even if on the line, is paranoid. I can see the value of performing the check to reinforce good habits, but each of these is admin in nature. Again, we're exempting speed reloads from the procedure.

What would get aggravating though is, if someone performs the procedure, holsters the weapon, and then performs it at a later time. Sidearms just don't magically unload themselves while holstered. If you have confidience in your routine, you only need to do it once/reload.

Personally I think the concept of a LCI, that's both visually and tactilely verifiable, is a great feature in a sidearm. Eliminates the need to perfrom check manually and all the attendant issues that crop up from doing it incorrectly, dangerously or needlessly.

[Rob Pincus]

jmart,

I consider the pistol and rifle checks the same in general... as for the method that you were taught by Mr. Rogers for systems with that type of magazine, I think it is a great solution (in the admin setting). If you check the position of the round before loading and then check after chambering you don't take the weapon partially out of battery. No need to go further.

-RJP