Gen3 G19 Shooting Low

Eric D. · #1 11-04-11, 16:38

I picked up a Gen3 G19 a few weeks ago from a local guy. The gun had 100 rounds through it when I bought it. I've since put 200 or so more through it, 100 Federal 115gr today, 100 WWB last week. It is a PYP serial test fired in Dec. 2010. It does have the dipped extractor. It has positive, strong ejection (no dribbling) with about 2-3% of the casings coming towards my face/head (Sample of 100). No stoppages thus far.

It has the Kyle Defoor sights with the serrated front on it (installed by local guy). At 15 yards my POI is about 8"-12" below POA. Shooting at 8"x8" paper targets I have to aim completely off the paper in order to hit the paper. This is with the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight. This is the first handgun I've ever owned or shot so it may very well be my technique. If anyone has advice or similar experience I'm all ears. I'm considering reverting to factory Glock sights to see If I have the same problem.

spamsammich · #2 11-04-11, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric D.

I picked up a Gen3 G19 a few weeks ago from a local guy. The gun had 100 rounds through it when I bought it. I've since put 200 or so more through it, 100 Federal 115gr today, 100 WWB last week. It is a PYP serial test fired in Dec. 2010. It does have the dipped extractor. It has positive, strong ejection (no dribbling) with about 2-3% of the casings coming towards my face/head (Sample of 100). No stoppages thus far.

It has the Kyle Defoor sights with the serrated front on it (installed by local guy). At 15 yards my POI is about 8"-12" below POA. Shooting at 8"x8" paper targets I have to aim completely off the paper in order to hit the paper. This is with the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight. This is the first handgun I've ever owned or shot so it may very well be my technique. If anyone has advice or similar experience I'm all ears. I'm considering reverting to factory Glock sights to see If I have the same problem.

Bench on a nice sturdy rest yet?

Buck · #3 11-04-11, 16:56

If you are doing everything else correctly (i.e. 7 principals), and using quality factory ammunition, and the firearm is within the manufacturers specifications, you either need a shorter front sight, or a taller rear one.

S/F

B

CDDM416 · #4 11-04-11, 16:57

My bet is you are flinching.
Get some snap caps and have a friend load them in you mag.

Heartbreaker · #5 11-04-11, 16:59

Shooting low could likely be a trigger jerking problem, which would make sense for a first time handgun shooter. Shoot it from a bag, or have a more experienced shooter try it out, chances are pretty low that it's the gun or the sights but it does happen. This may help-

Eric D. · #6 11-04-11, 17:17

This is what I was thinking and why I was going to try the factory Glock sights. Can you elaborate on the 7 principals you mention?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

If you are doing everything else correctly (i.e. 7 principals), and using quality factory ammunition, and the firearm is within the manufacturers specifications, you either need a shorter front sight, or a taller rear one.

S/F

B

I don't think I'm flinching. I'm used to shooting in general and I've got a pretty good handle on the Glock trigger - taking up the slack, maintaining sight picture and breaking a shot. I'll have to have some other guys shoot it next time.

St.Michael · #7 11-04-11, 20:04

As posted above try the snap caps too and maybe you are slapping? Sometimes when I swap from SA to Glocks I forget and tend to slap the trigger.

Buck · #8 11-04-11, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric D.

Can you elaborate on the 7 principals you mention?

stance
grip
sight alignment
sight picture
breath control
trigger control
follow through

I am going to suggest that you seek professional instruction. If you have never heard of the 7 principals, it is unlikely that you are doing them correctly, and anything else you from this point will likely only reinforce ban habits and make you worse...

B

gringop · #9 11-05-11, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

stance
grip
sight alignment
sight picture
breath control
trigger control
follow through

I am going to suggest that you seek professional instruction. If you have never heard of the 7 principals, it is unlikely that you are doing them correctly, and anything else you from this point will likely only reinforce ban habits and make you worse...

B

I've been shooting all my life, instructing professionally for 5 years, am an IDPA Master and have never hear them called "the 7 principals". Maybe I'll have to start calling them that, along with the "3 corollaries" and the "5 precepts".

OP, have someone who is very familiar with Glocks shoot it from a rest. If it still shoots low, you're in luck. It's a lot easier to shorten a front sight than to stretch it.

I have a gen 2 G19, a gen 3 G19 and a gen 2 G17, all with Defoor sights. They all shoot about 2" high at 25 yards. 12" low at 15 yards is out of the ball park.

My FS is .160 from top of sight to the slide. My RS is .175. Are yours close to that?

Gringop

Eric D. · #10 11-06-11, 21:01

That's what I plan to do. I can't comment on the sights' height as my caliper's battery is dead

(I will be getting a dial one).

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringop

OP, have someone who is very familiar with Glocks shoot it from a rest. If it still shoots low, you're in luck. It's a lot easier to shorten a front sight than to stretch it.

I have a gen 2 G19, a gen 3 G19 and a gen 2 G17, all with Defoor sights. They all shoot about 2" high at 25 yards. 12" low at 15 yards is out of the ball park.

My FS is .160 from top of sight to the slide. My RS is .175. Are yours close to that?

Gringop

mark5pt56 · #11 11-06-11, 21:10

What rear sight is on it? If it's a mis-matched set, the front could be to high for the rear. You could(after verified by another shooter) SLOWLY file down the front sight to tune it with the rear you have on there.--or get a set of three dot Warren's and be done with it.

Failure2Stop · #12 11-06-11, 21:12

This is not a personal hit against you, just the reality of pistol shooting is that most perceived sight issues are actually shooter issues. If you see a guy that can consistently get a 5" or smaller group at 25 yards, have him shoot your blaster and see how it prints.

Eric D. · #13 11-06-11, 23:29

AFAIK its a complete Defoor set. I want to get a set of night sights eventually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark5pt56

What rear sight is on it? If it's a mis-matched set, the front could be to high for the rear. You could(after verified by another shooter) SLOWLY file down the front sight to tune it with the rear you have on there.--or get a set of three dot Warren's and be done with it.

No offense taken. I noticed right away that pistols are a whole different animal compared to rifles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failure2Stop

This is not a personal hit against you, just the reality of pistol shooting is that most perceived sight issues are actually shooter issues. If you see a guy that can consistently get a 5" or smaller group at 25 yards, have him shoot your blaster and see how it prints.

JSantoro · #14 11-07-11, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringop

I've been shooting all my life, instructing professionally for 5 years, am an IDPA Master and have never hear them called "the 7 principals". Maybe I'll have to start calling them that, along with the "3 corollaries" and the "5 precepts".

The bolded portion, I have no doubt, is completely factual, in that you have never heard them called that. That's probably where it ends, since it's not in any way indicative of the fundamentals having never been broken down that way, nor that doing so is in any fashion incorrect or worthy of your apparent scorn.

You could be the Lesbian Queen of Xanadu, in terms of resume. Whatever, what you NEED to do is start remembering to use smilies to indicate sarcasm, OR not fling a bunch of needless snark at another lifelong shooter, professional instructor and a member of the forum staff....who's resume may very well outstrip yours.

Think about that while you're not posting in this thread any more.

QuickStrike · #15 11-07-11, 22:39

@25yards

Not as centered as with the 1911.

I'll see how it prints after I get used to the glock's trigger again. Will bench it next time too.

Should I rest the frame against the sandbags?

baddoggy · #16 11-07-11, 22:44

try positioning the dot on the middle of the bull rather than the top of the sight.

ck1 · #17 11-13-11, 18:28

I've had 4 sets of the Defoor sights on (2) 19's and (2) 17's, after figuring it out with the first set, each and every set required the taller rear that is normally a part of the Defoor set for the .45/10mm's (andwhich Ameriglo will give you a deal on if you contact them and explain your issue). IIRC Rick at Ameriglo said that guys having the Defoor's hit low with the 9/40's was pretty common as the set is sized to hit POI at the top of the front blade at 25 yards, and that means a hold over picture for everything closer-in, which is confusing to a lot of shooters.
What is more common with most all-black irons out there (like Warren/Sevigny's for example) is that they're made to hit at the top of the blade at like 7 yards or so with POI rising from there as distance increases to be around 3-6" high at 25 yards (so one can easily lollipop a 6" plate at 25 yards). Some call that a "6 o'clock hold" but it isn't really, it's just what most guys expect with all-black irons using the top of the blade as the POA reference whereas guys who are used to dots of some sort tend to think of the middle of the blade to be their aiming point.

That said, 8-12" low at 15 yards seems extremely low though, so it could be you need the taller rear AND you're burying the front sight in the notch on your shots... it's very common for shooters to bury their front blade in the notch with all-black sights (you may not even know you're doing it) due to how our eyes work, especially at speed, having it print a little higher will help some with that.