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11-28-11, 19:39
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Are vertical grips legal now
At the Orlando gun show there was a dealer selling ar pistols with vertical grips. He said that they were legal. The ATF had giving him a letter. Saying that the pistols were more than 26.6 inches long. There were no longer considered a pistol and where consider an other weapon. Anyone aware of this.
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11-28-11, 19:50
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MI
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yes.
I believe that the ruling by the ATF was based on a question submitted by Kahr regarding some Thompson product that they sell, but it applies to ARs as well if the total length is greater than 26 inches.
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11-28-11, 19:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrich007
At the Orlando gun show there was a dealer selling ar pistols with vertical grips.
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That configuration is not a pistol.
It is a "firearm" under the GCA, like a Mossberg 12ga with pistol grip is not a shotgun or a pistol.
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Todd
No longer working at Noveske
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11-28-11, 20:08
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd.K
That configuration is not a pistol.
It is a "firearm" under the GCA, like a Mossberg 12ga with pistol grip is not a shotgun or a pistol.
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would that be an AOW?
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Democracy is two wolves and a sheep discussing lunch, Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote.
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11-28-11, 21:03
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Franklin Arms got a ruling from the ATF with an 11.5" AR pistol upper on an AR lower with carbine length buffer tube. Longer than 26", it can have a vert. grip.
Always check you local and state laws.
Dave
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Better to die for something than live for nothing
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11-28-11, 22:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obucina
would that be an AOW?
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No, an AOW must be concealable and that is where the 26" OAL minimum comes in.
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Todd
No longer working at Noveske
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12-27-11, 18:33
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow65
Franklin Arms got a ruling from the ATF with an 11.5" AR pistol upper on an AR lower with carbine length buffer tube. Longer than 26", it can have a vert. grip.
Always check you local and state laws.
Dave
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This is where I got the information as well. There's a letter out there, they produce 11.5 ar pistols with VFG's now.
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12-27-11, 21:07
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Have VFG's ever been illegal when added to a pistol by the end user? I know the ATF has published their opinion, but has anyone ever been convicted in Federal Court for adding a VFG to a pistol? Every case I have ever read was dismissed by the Judge or found not guilty.
Don't get me wrong, I do not have one on a pistol, nor do I want one. I also understand that I could lose everything/go broke defending myself against the ATF's opinion. I am just wondering if anyone knows of anyone being successfully prosecuted for adding a VFG to a pistol?
Last edited by az doug; 12-27-11 at 21:08
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01-04-12, 23:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az doug
Have VFG's ever been illegal when added to a pistol by the end user?
YES THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN A.O.W. ( Any Other Weapon)
I know the ATF has published their opinion, but has anyone ever been convicted in Federal Court for adding a VFG to a pistol? Every case I have ever read was dismissed by the Judge or found not guilty.
Normally it is thrown out in exchange for a plee on other charges.
Don't get me wrong, I do not have one on a pistol, nor do I want one. I also understand that I could lose everything/go broke defending myself against the ATF's opinion. I am just wondering if anyone knows of anyone being successfully prosecuted for adding a VFG to a pistol?
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I can think of the 1 guy with a SP89 on Gunbroker a few years back that got caught when he tried to sell the gun with the VFG attached in the pictures. IIRC he did do alittle time.
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FFL 07/02
Last edited by MrM4; 01-04-12 at 23:37
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01-05-12, 01:12
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Industry Professional/Moderator
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Those of you whom have commented recently need to re-read what was posted and what ToddK mentioned. This is only legal in limited circumstances as has been spelled out.
Don't read into this.
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"Change....one magazine at a time."-Me
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01-05-12, 09:56
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Free State of Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow65
Franklin Arms got a ruling from the ATF with an 11.5" AR pistol upper on an AR lower with carbine length buffer tube. Longer than 26", it can have a vert. grip.
Always check you local and state laws.
Dave
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That wasn't a ruling.
The ATF letter said what has always been the law.
Franklin Arms is not the first company to build guns like this.
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"Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm
Last edited by scottryan; 01-05-12 at 09:56
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01-06-12, 23:56
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrM4
I can think of the 1 guy with a SP89 on Gunbroker a few years back that got caught when he tried to sell the gun with the VFG attached in the pictures. IIRC he did do alittle time.
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Thanks. I will look into the SP-89 case. All of the ones charged, that I know of, were either found not guilty or the judge dismissed the charges. These weren't dismissed because because of a plea to other charges, although there could be a couple of those and I am just not aware of them.
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02-15-12, 00:35
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Just pay your tax and be done with it 
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02-18-12, 09:27
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A pistol with a OAl 26" or greater may have a VFG add to it however with the VFG installed it is no longer classified as a pistol, it is a simple title1 firearm.
This is not a new ruling. This is the same ruling that allowed the Thompson A5 "pistol" in the mid 1970s.
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