Ultrasonic - what chemicals?

rsilvers · #1 12-03-11, 22:38

I have tried various chemicals like Simple Green, Krud Cutter, Purple Power....

Some of them dissolve aluminum. Today Krud Cutter bleached out my KAC flip up sights and lightened the rail.

Has anyone found stuff which eats carbon and oil but does not ruin aluminum or steel?

An Undocumented Worker · #2 12-03-11, 23:11

I've used Safety-Kleen before, but it seems to temper the ultrasonic properties of the machine a bit. Otherwise you could try using dish, or clothes detergent in the machine aswell.

Rightnow I'm using water and harbor freights detergent, though I may go back to safety kleen so that I don't have to wory about getting water out of tiny crevices on the stuff I clean.

As for the carbon, you may try mixing odorless mineral spirits with GM Topend cleaner, run that through the machine and see what happens.

As for aluminum, ultrasonic cleaners and aluminum or magnesium do not play well together, short run times may be ok, but anything extended and you are asking for damage.

ucrt · #3 12-03-11, 23:24

.

I have used an Ultra-Sonic cleaner at work on analyzer parts for years but there is a concern like you stated about reacting with aluminum.

I e-mailed SuperClean (an excellent potent degreaser/cleaner) a few weeks ago and they said attacking aluminum is a concern with their product too. They said "soaking' it was the problem.
Most good cleaners are caustic and it is what reacts with Al.

I have been checking "Carbon Cleaners" out with my "nose" and most of them smell like 409. Today I smelled Slip 2000 and Wilson's carbon cleaner and they smell a lot alike.
After the holidays, I am going to try 409 mixed 50/50 in my U/S Cleaner on a piece of Al flatbar to see how it reacts. If it does OK, I'm going to try an Al Trigger Guard to see how an anodized part holds up.

I have used 409 on black powder for year with great results. I have also cleaned my BCG parts with 409 and a toothbrush but it was wet for only 45 minutes and not in a U/S Cleaner. An U/S Cleaner changes things several ways - you generally leave parts in there an extended time, it gets warm, and it is aggressive.

If my 409 test don't work out, I'll try Dawn DW Liquid mixed 8/1 or so. I really believe water is the best carbon cutter but just needs a surfactant to help it work better.

Let me know what you come up with.

.

rsilvers · #4 12-03-11, 23:31

I think I found the answer:

http://gsa.simplegreen.com/gsa_products_extreme.php

I highly doubt it will attack aluminum, plastic, or paint.

Amazon sells it.

But I need to check the MSDS to see if they have something that is the same for 1/2 the price:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A3SKJE188CW5XG

http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/MSDS...tPrecision.pdf
http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/MSDS...oseCleaner.pdf
http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/MSDS...-HeavyDuty.pdf

There is also Slip2000 Carbon Killer, but it is $45 a gallon and may hurt certain materials.

Hart · #5 12-04-11, 00:02

The 409 type cleaners, be very careful with them. Great cleaner but can etch aluminum from what I have seen. The purple concentrated degreaser that can be had at H Depot, a 409 type product from what I can tell, I have used to chemically etch aluminum for a primer.

scottryan · #6 12-04-11, 00:21

I would never put a firearm in one of these.

scottryan · #7 12-04-11, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsilvers

I think I found the answer:

http://gsa.simplegreen.com/gsa_products_extreme.php

I highly doubt it will attack aluminum, plastic, or paint.

Amazon sells it.

But I need to check the MSDS to see if they have something that is the same for 1/2 the price:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A3SKJE188CW5XG

http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/MSDS...tPrecision.pdf
http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/MSDS...oseCleaner.pdf
http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/MSDS...-HeavyDuty.pdf

There is also Slip2000 Carbon Killer, but it is $45 a gallon and may hurt certain materials.

Slip 2000 will bleach out parkerizing if you leave it in for more than a few hours.

Iraqgunz · #8 12-04-11, 00:36

I spoke with the Froglube guys today and he advised that some people are using it in the Ultrasonic cleaners with positive results.

K1tt3n5 · #9 12-04-11, 00:48

Why not m-pro7? It can be diluted 10-1.

Iraqgunz · #10 12-04-11, 00:54

I have used it and it's pretty good. But, you have to ensure that you also lube everything well afterwards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1tt3n5

Why not m-pro7? It can be diluted 10-1.

rsilvers · #11 12-04-11, 03:41

I think I need to limit the ultrasonic to the BCG only.

K1tt3n5 · #12 12-04-11, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqgunz

I have used it and it's pretty good. But, you have to ensure that you also lube everything well afterwards.

I guess for me that would be fine, assuming the only time I'll be using an u/s is for very thorough cleanings.

BCmJUnKie · #13 12-04-11, 12:43

The best stuff is called Alcanox. Its made specifically for cleaning metal.

Its a powder. If you want to try some out, I can send you some

K1tt3n5 · #14 12-04-11, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCmJUnKie

The best stuff is called Alcanox. Its made specifically for cleaning metal.

Its a powder. If you want to try some out, I can send you some

How about letting me borrow your u/s

but really I need to buy one and don't know what to look for.

markm · #15 12-04-11, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsilvers

There is also Slip2000 Carbon Killer, but it is $45 a gallon and may hurt certain materials.

That shit is as useless as tits on a lightening bolt. I blew up my bottle of that crap with a pound of tannerite.

rssllhill · #16 12-04-11, 14:06

The key for whatever you use if for the pH of the solution in the ultrasonic to be less than 9.0. As a corrosion engineer, we deal with this all the time. The number one defense against aluminum corrosion by water is to keep control of the pH and keep it below a pH of 9.0. Preferrably, closer to 8.0. Corrosion of an aluminum part in water is also time dependent. The longer the part is in the solution, the more corrosion takes place.

That being said, I know of gunsmiths that use a solution of Ballistol oil in Ultrasonic cleaners. I checked the msds for ballistol and it says "50 gr of Ballistol in 1000 grs of water normally produces a pH of 8.5 to 9.5". They can not state an exact pH because all water varies to some degree.

Now as for the actual evalution of how much corrosion takes place, corrosion rates are reported in mils per year (myp). We also separate the corrosion by type. For example general etching, pitting, galvanic. To explain it one step further, with aluminum, we try to keep the corrosion less than 2 mpy. That means 2 mils of metal loss over a year. In hours, that's 8,760. So how long are you wanting to leave the part in an Ultrasonic bath? 30 minutes? So if you had a solution that had good corrosion inhibition properties, your corrosion caused by the bath would less than 0.000114 mpy. If you want to convert that to metric, multiply times 0.0254. either way you look at it, it's not very much.

Don't want to be to technical, but I think you are worrying over nothing.

BCmJUnKie · #17 12-04-11, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1tt3n5

How about letting me borrow your u/s

but really I need to buy one and don't know what to look for.

Check out some tattoo suppliers.

Kingpin, Cam there are a few.

If you get it from kingpin they can be a little pricey

K1tt3n5 · #18 12-04-11, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCmJUnKie

Check out some tattoo suppliers.

Kingpin, Cam there are a few.

If you get it from kingpin they can be a little pricey

Thank you.

Suwannee Tim · #19 12-04-11, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsilvers

.....Has anyone found stuff which eats carbon and oil but does not ruin aluminum or steel?

Nothing eats carbon at room temperature. I researched this a couple of decades ago and don't remember all the specifics like what HF does to carbon (nothing if a mediocre memory serves) but there is nothing you want to be involved with that will "eat" job. Fortunately, the "carbon" we have to deal with is not pure carbon and has no crystalline structure, being more a collection or particles. I like to think, particularly with gas pistons and DI components that soaking them in oil after the shooting session ends is beneficial. My theory is that when the heat of shooting is applied after the oil has soaked in, the oil vaporizes and busts up the carbon deposits from the inside.

cacop · #20 12-04-11, 22:35

We use Carbon Killer at work.

We usually just put the bolt carrier group parts into the ultrasonic cleaner and use the carbon killer on the bore. The big thing is just to leave it in there for 20-30 minutes only. It can take the finish off. I will rinse it off with mineral spirits. Then lube as necessary.