Another Upper with No Forward Assist

saddlerocker · #1 12-06-11, 19:58

Rainier Arms apparently just got their first batch.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=2940

I really like the no FA uppers, and was planning on a Vltor for another build since they were the only ones I knew about, but the price was hard to justify.

Just public service announcement....

(I have no affiliation with Rainier)

St.Michael · #2 12-06-11, 20:02

That's fugly. Hhahaha. I like the old style! Maybe this will be the new trend though?

saddlerocker · #3 12-06-11, 20:27

You may be right, Id like to see one on a complete rifle.
I still like the Vltors look better, but if your trying to save weight the Vltor is actually thicker and I think heavier then standard uppers

I think I might actually like a naked upper with no deflector either, or a very small deflector

SteveL · #4 12-06-11, 21:11

I actually like the look of them without the FA. I guess it's just me.

dr.crash · #5 12-06-11, 21:14

whats the reasoning or benefit of not having a forward assist? i can count a few time where that thing has saved my butt

kwelz · #6 12-06-11, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.crash

whats the reasoning or benefit of not having a forward assist? i can count a few time where that thing has saved my butt

I am curious as to when this would be.

If a round failed to seat it us generally for one of two reasons.

1: You rode the CH forward and didn't let it seat right in which case the FA may or may not help and you are better off clearing it and starting over.

2: There is something blocking the round in which case the FA is just going to make a bad problem worse.

deadlyfire · #7 12-06-11, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.crash

whats the reasoning or benefit of not having a forward assist? i can count a few time where that thing has saved my butt

I was trained to use the FA in the infantry so I'm not sure why there's a movement away from it either. I keep meaning to look it up...
The upper looks nice either way!

dr.crash · #8 12-06-11, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwelz

I am curious as to when this would be.

If a round failed to seat it us generally for one of two reasons.

1: You rode the CH forward and didn't let it seat right in which case the FA may or may not help and you are better off clearing it and starting over.

2: There is something blocking the round in which case the FA is just going to make a bad problem worse.

During my time in the military and not always having the cleanest environment, due to the weapon not being clean i have had to use it a handful of times. I gess really why do you not want it there?

a0cake · #9 12-06-11, 21:26

Good discussion on the merits of a F/A can be found here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92951

RyanB · #10 12-07-11, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.crash

During my time in the military and not always having the cleanest environment, due to the weapon not being clean i have had to use it a handful of times. I gess really why do you not want it there?

Necessary to close the action after you hit the bolt release and it bound, or necessary to complete SPORTS?

Nightvisionary · #11 12-07-11, 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlyfire

I was trained to use the FA in the infantry so I'm not sure why there's a movement away from it either. I keep meaning to look it up...
The upper looks nice either way!

Same here. The forward assist was designed into the system resulting from hard lessons learned during the Vietnam war.

fdxpilot · #12 12-07-11, 05:00

The forward assist is also handy for silently chambering a round while hunting. Not so much for sneaking up on the ever-elusive paper target.

phenom00 · #13 12-07-11, 06:18

I'm not getting this trend either, it's nice to have the forward assist just in case. Is it really a weight issue or perhaps slightly less costly on parts not having it on there.

RyanB · #14 12-07-11, 08:00

Once the economies of scale are worked out it should be about $15 cheaper and 2-3 ounces lighter. That's not insignificant. I've not seen a use for the FA except in guns that are both dry and dirty.

markm · #15 12-07-11, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by saddlerocker

was planning on a Vltor for another build since they were the only ones I knew about, but the price was hard to justify.

Not really. Better heat treatment.... Stronger upper (less receiver flex), Real Forging.. not a Billet crap.

Boss Hogg · #16 12-07-11, 08:24

I've been known to curse ARs, Glocks, and even AKs, but I've never, ever had to use a forward assist.

TMS951 · #17 12-07-11, 08:33

Its cool to see these coming out. I have Leas Baer uppers with no forward assist. It was a big deal to try to get a hold of them with the M4 feed ramps.

Its nice to know for future builds I can now just get them from Rainier.

I have never needed the forward assist, and like the weight saving and sleekness of the slick side. It also works great with a charging handle that operates from the right side as well.

viperashes · #18 12-07-11, 09:27

I read here on M4C a while back, and somewhere else that I can't recall that the reason for the deletion of the forward assist is that some people feel as if it is no longer necessary, and that they feel that it's just more parts that could potentially break and make the weapon malfunction.

Now, granted, if the pawl of a forward assist did break off, it may cause some serious ass pain on the range, or worse in an operational environment, but how many of us here have actually had forward assists break? I've personally never seen one.

OldGreg · #19 12-07-11, 11:17

Thanks to the OP for this post. It's good to know i can source something else than have to mess w/ the Baer.

markm · #20 12-07-11, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by viperashes

but how many of us here have actually had forward assists break? I've personally never seen one.

I've read of a reported case where the roll pin failed and jammed up the gun.

Dumping the FA based on this is like not leaving your house every day for fear of a meteor landing on your head.