Who here wants to have Cheap training Ammo?

[GunnutAF]

I know it will probably go over like a lead balloon here but here it goes. Would you like to have ammo for your AR that runs about $.10 a round? Function just as good as store bought training ammo? Then maybe you should look into cast Bullets for your AR. I'm along time caster- cast for every caliber I shoot and since getting into shooting an AR again and being by nature a cheap SOB I decided to get a mold for the AR. There quite a few to choose from but I settled on the Lyman 55gr GC design. Obviously having a Semi-auto firearm posses some challenges- why shoot cast if you can't have full functional use right. Well you can ! It took alittle load developement but I have a fully functional load and accurate enough for training use!

I cast mine from WW and water quenched with gas check they come out to 62gr +/- 1 gr.



I know most of you guys shoot 1:7" twist guns! They will work in those as well you just might have to slow them down just a tad to get accuracy - but that's the fun of reloading right! The groups below were shot with a 1:9" twist.

[wahoo95]

That accuracy wont lend itself to my accuracy standards for training and competition. We have several guys try to run cast bullets in some or the local competitions, but they all suffered FTF during the matches.

[GunnutAF]

Wahoo95
I never said these loads were for competitons nor to take a class with! Just good cheap practice ammo. I've had Zero FTF since I got the load to where it loads and ejects correctly. The 100 yard target you see was shot at rapid pace off bags 10 rounds in about 8 seconds to ensure function!

[ryr8828]

I wish you luck with yours but I bought a 5.45x39 ar for that purpose, practicing shooting at 100 yds and more.
And a 9mm ar to practice shooting at closer ranges since I shoot at steel.

I still burn up plenty of 5.56 and 7.62 at surplus costs also. Not as much as I'd like to.

[Nightvisionary]

I would be concerned about lead build up in my barrel.

[wesprt]

For close range blasting it might be OK. It's not going to have the same recoil or trajectory. You can't get the velocity even with gas checks to approximate M193 or full pressure jacketed loads at longer distances.

I used to cast for 9mm and .45 but it's not worth it for center fire rifles IMO. There's a machine that lets you swage your own FMJ for .224 projectiles using spent .22 brass as a jacket. I'd look into that before I started casting for them

[ryr8828]

Originally Posted by Nightvisionary

I would be concerned about lead build up in my barrel.

I thought that too, then I thought that's what the gas checks are for.

I'm willing to learn, I'll be watching this thread.

[5pins]

I would be concerned about lead build up in my gas tube

[sgtjosh]

I think the "operators" over at ARFCOM would be a more receptive audience.

[GunnutAF]

5pins/Nightvisionary
Negative on both counts. I get no leading- key to this proper bullet size and keeping the velocity in the zone for your alloy! For my alloy and this bullet thats under 2100 fps. Now if I used straight lino alloy I could probably push these to 2700 fps or more! I could heat treat my alloy and probably go 2400 ish. The problem with hard alloy's is you have to change to sizing to allow engraving to occur. Lino by it nature likes to come out undersized so you have to have a specialty mold made to cast for it! Exspensive! At the pressures I run these there is going to be no build up of lead in the tube- IE to function the action complete blow out of any buildup will occur!

Read post #57 Larry Gibson is a long time cast shooter in the AR platform.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=135309&page=3

Wesprt
I actually looked into it. It's a great idea and works real well - god knows I can find thousands of spent 22 LR laying around- all the time. The big draw back to doing it is finding lead wire to use as the core- hard to find and exspensive! My only cost for my rounds are gas checks, powder and primers!

[Littlelebowski]

Mil surp 5.45x39mm at less than 20 cents a round at 100 yards with a red dot.

[Gramps]

LilB, what gun was that? And I assume surplus ammo?

[Littlelebowski]

Originally Posted by Gramps

LilB, what gun was that? And I assume surplus ammo?

S&W M&P AR15. 80's era soviet surplus 5.45.

[markm]

It's so much extra work though. Loading rifle already is a lot of steps.

The extra effort would be worth it for Better ammo... but for me... not worth it for cheaper ammo.

[eternal24k]

to echo Markm's comment, reloading is a lot of work, I would rather take the extra expense to save time from casting and have a superior ammo.

I also do not want to be cleaning lead out of my AR, the gas port concern is valid.

[Gramps]

Thanks LilB. I just picked up a 5.45, it is a "Tantal" and needed to have a bunch of dumb ass paint removed, but it was easy. It does have the correct barrel, and a none folding stock, US made, longer LOP. Any way, I do have every thing to reload, but it is at times a PITA. I just got 2160 rnds of surplus 5.45 delivered for $.1325 a round. Just have to get out and shoot the you know what out of it now. To me thats cheap as, and easier than reloading, and will work just fine for training/fun.

[chadbag]

The biggest thing you can do to reduce or eliminate leading in the barrel etc with this sort of thing is to use a proper lube.

Verl Smith (I think that is his name), old time curmudgeon of cast bullets and founder and owner of LBT (Lead Bullet Technologies) claims in his book, IIRC (my brother is the caster, not me, and he read it and told me about it), that he uses full power rifle loads with cast bullets and the key is the lube. A good lube like his LBT Blue or comparable lubes.

Gas check does not hurt either of course, but the lube is supposedly the key.

Again, I don't claim to be an expert, just regurgitating what my brother told me from Verl Smith of LBT.

So Gunnut, get some LBT Blue and see if you can't push the velocity up to standard 2600-2800 range without issues!


With bulk 55gr FMJ, surplus 844 powder, and a primer you can load up training ammo around 18-19 cents.

[Generalpie]

I am just finishing up my stash of marked up 62 grain pulled bullets which are as cheap as I could ever find. They all had to be resized to make sure they are round and accuracy is poor but for everything under 50 yards they worked great.

Not sure what I will do once those are gone as I am back to purchasing bulk bullets again.

I have shot a ton of cast bullets from handguns but nothing from rifles. I would have loved to try it but I just don't have the time to get into that anymore. I do believe that you can get quality ammo to shoot well using cast bullets but you do have to know what you are doing. I know enough to know that I don't know enough to try anything cast in a rifle.

[GunnutAF]

Generalpie
You under estimate yourself. Casting and shooting cast in rifles is not much different then pistols. Depending on the rifle it's quite easy in fact. The AR platform requires some extra attention and poses some more challenges but it's not rocket science to get it working with cast. I currently cast for 30-30, 30-06, and 8X57mm the larger bore firearms are pretty straight forward and one can achieve great accuracy with them and cast bullets with little or no differnce in performance! With small bore rifles defects in cast bullets are magnified ten fold. As I've found out the hard way. These little bullets are under alot stress, way more then the larger calibers!

[Bimmer]

Originally Posted by GunnutAF

Would you like to have ammo for your AR that runs about $.10 a round? Function just as good as store bought training ammo?

How about less than 5¢ per round?

Federal bulk-pack high-velocity .22lr through my CMMG .22lr conversion...