Precision AR Questions

Neeglik · #1 08-23-06, 15:38

A couple things I'm trying to figure out here guys. I can't seem to leave well enough alone, so I'm trying to decide what I might want to build next. So anywho, here goes:

First off, I'm new to the whole mid-length gas system thing. I'm in the middle of building my first one. I see where the mid-length gas system is "superior" to the carbine, but how does it compare to the rifle-length system?

Along the same lines, if you are trying to soften the already low recoil of the AR rifle (a middy), where would your efforts be best placed; muzzle brake, heavy buffers, etc?

Lastly, in seeking a mid-range (50-500yd) AR with sub-moa accuracy, in what order of importance would you rank the following (all other things being equal; ammo, skill, etc.):
barrel
optic
trigger

From what I've been reading, it sounds like it would be pretty equal with the first two, with a two-stage trigger coming in last. What I'm wondering here is where I will get the most bang for my buck. Would a govt' profile barrel with excellent glass get the job done, or would I be better served with a SS match barrel and a lesser scope? FWIW, I have no experience with aftermarket triggers, but I've never really had a problem with the standard ones.

Thanks guys...

Hoplophile · #2 08-23-06, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neeglik

Lastly, in seeking a mid-range (50-500yd) AR with sub-moa accuracy, in what order of importance would you rank the following (all other things being equal; ammo, skill, etc.):
barrel
optic
trigger

The barrel is the absolute most important. This includes both the quality of the barrel, chamber, rifling, etc. and the installation to ensure that nothing is done to reduce the accuracy. By installation I mean free-floating the barrel, attaching the things like gas blocks and muzzle devices in such a way that they do not introduce stresses to the system, and having a bolt and upper receiver that are fitted properly to the barrel to ensure there is no binding or uneven pressures on the barrel esp. as it heats up. This is where all of the real accuracy comes from.

Everything else including the trigger and sights are user interface issues. So long as they are not outright defective (i.e. a scope with a reticle that moves around under recoil) a good shooter will be able to compensate for crude sights or a heavy trigger much more easily than they can a weapon that is simply not as accurate.

I'd have to say that the trigger is a little more important than sights though. A trigger is kind of like a waiter. If they're good then you don't even notice them and can concentrate on everything else. You have to focus on sight picture anyway and crude sights just mean you have to focus more while a heavy or gritty trigger causes you have to split your attention between the sights and the trigger. That's what it does to me, at any rate.

nyeti · #3 08-23-06, 20:03

Here is what I did on my version of what I think you are looking for.

It is essentially a mini precision rifle. Noveske 14.5 with a Krink brake, Colt upper and lower with a Colt low mass trigger, and a factory A1 length stock. All LaRue mounts and 13.2 rail with a US Optics 1-4 SN 4 with a DOE reticle......

I have pictures that I can send to someone who can post them, as I apparantly don't have that level of options yet on this forum.

C4IGrant · #4 08-23-06, 20:11

I would say that Skill is number one, followed by barrel then by trigger. I have seen awesome shooters do wonders with crappy weapons. For pure precision, I would go with a SS barrel (16" is my choice). Quality glass does matter, but put it down the list.

Rifle length gas systems are good in 20" barrels (which is to long IMHO). Stick with a Middy gas sytem, H or H2 buffer and a quality spring and you will be happy with the results.

C4

Neeglik · #5 08-23-06, 20:20

Interesting feedback. I didn't realize the trigger had such an impact (more so than good glass, that is).

I definitely agree that skill and training is most important, I was just wondering what characteristics set the good rifles apart from the great rifles.

Grant, you read my mind. I'm debating on refiguring my 20" SAMish rifle into a 16" Recce-ish rifle.

Nyeti,
I'm all for pics, but I wasn't so much wondering about product as I was concepts.

Derek_Connor · #6 08-23-06, 20:57

One must consider ammo also, another important factor that seems to be forgotten sometimes.

Even with the best quality factory ammunition, there is still "room" for accuracy improvement with handloads. How much? Not sure, but once I stop renting and get into a house, no more guns for awhile, reloading here I come.

Every barrel can be considered a child in my mind. Nothing applies across the board and everything is specific to that little brat.