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Artos
02-26-12, 13:07
any M4 member history buffs??

I've suddenly found myself intrigued & would like to narrow my search.

Any direction would be helpful.

Thanks!!

DJK
02-26-12, 14:45
WWI must read: A Rifleman Went To War by Herbert McBride. WWI history plus this book became to basis of the USMC sniper program in Vietnam. Pick up this new reprint from Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Rifleman-Went-War-Herbert-McBride/dp/1614271674/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1330288807&sr=8-2

DJK
02-26-12, 14:54
Another good read is - WW1: Experiences of an English Soldier. http://wwar1.blogspot.com/ I followed the blog from the beginning and sometimes it is difficult to follow. But, I found it well worth the effort to get an understanding of the war from a British Private's standpoint.

DeltaSierra
02-26-12, 16:30
This might be a good book to start out with: http://www.amazon.com/Guns-August-Barbara-W-Tuchman/dp/0345476093/

a0cake
02-26-12, 16:45
any M4 member history buffs??

I've suddenly found myself intrigued & would like to narrow my search.

Any direction would be helpful.

Thanks!!

I've studied WWI in the context of Middle Eastern history pretty extensively. It's a very interesting angle (which is often inexplicably glossed over) that explains a lot of today's issues. WWI cannot be fully understood without knowing the history of the Ottoman Empire and looking carefully at the McMahon - Husayn correspondence of 1915. Those letters should be read alongside the Sykes-Picot agreement. Doing so will give you a first hand insight into the issue of who is the rightful proprietor of the Palestinian lands, or at least insight into that debate.

If the modern Middle East as well as WWI interest you, I highly suggest digging deeper into the Ottoman Empire's involvement, as well as how the borders of the new nation states that replaced the Ottoman Empire affected the geopolitical climate of the region after WWI.

DeltaSierra
02-26-12, 17:13
I've studied WWI in the context of Middle Eastern history pretty extensively. It's a very interesting angle (which is often inexplicably glossed over) that explains a lot of today's issues. WWI cannot be fully understood without knowing the history of the Ottoman Empire and looking carefully at the McMahon - Husayn correspondence of 1915. Those letters should be read alongside the Sykes-Picot agreement. Doing so will give you a first hand insight into the issue of who is the rightful proprietor of the Palestinian lands, or at least insight into that debate.

If the modern Middle East as well as WWI interest you, I highly suggest digging deeper into the Ottoman Empire's involvement, as well as how the borders of the new nation states that replaced the Ottoman Empire affected the geopolitical climate of the region after WWI.

I hadn't thought much about this aspect before, but now that I read what you wrote here it makes perfect sense. I'd be interested in any reading suggestions that you might have that would address this angle...

Artos
02-26-12, 17:22
It's not really the middle east but Germany's quest for domination that struck a chord...history & military channels spend a lot of time on the wwii era & I happened to catch the Red Barron the other night.

Not sure why I'm eat'n up with this stuff all the sudden but can't seem to get enough.

They made mention that Hitler was an errand boy during wwi & realized I needed a refresher in history.

Thanks for suggestions!! Any and all are welcomed...:)

LHS
02-26-12, 17:33
WWI must read: A Rifleman Went To War by Herbert McBride. WWI history plus this book became to basis of the USMC sniper program in Vietnam. Pick up this new reprint from Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Rifleman-Went-War-Herbert-McBride/dp/1614271674/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1330288807&sr=8-2

Can't agree more. McBride has a number of interesting anecdotes that shed some light on the situation at the time.

From a weapons perspective, Bruce Canfield's "U.S. Infantry Weapons of the First World War" has some neat stuff, including weapons you wouldn't think of like the 37mm infantry gun. Robert Bruce's "Machine Guns of WWI" has some rather epic gun-pr0n over which to drool.

DeltaSierra
02-26-12, 17:47
It's not really the middle east but Germany's quest for domination that struck a chord...

Then you should study a different topic....

Once you start to dig into this subject, you will find out that there is so much more to this discussion than the generally accepted version of events that the Hitler Channel and other shows of that nature would suggest.

Artos
02-26-12, 18:18
Then you should study a different topic....

Once you start to dig into this subject, you will find out that there is so much more to this discussion than the generally accepted version of events that the Hitler Channel and other shows of that nature would suggest.

Then learn me...need to start somewhere.

bring it...;)

Smuckatelli
02-26-12, 19:20
Okay, here you go:

Morale ISBN 0-85052-049-5. This is a good book to understand what was the motivation to fight during that time period.

A Rifleman Went to War ISBN 0-935856-01-3 Already covered above.

Suddenly We Didn't Want to Die ISBN 0-89141-593-9 Memories from a WW I Marine.

The Real War (Liddell Hart) ISBN 0-316-52505-7Good book covering 1914-1918

The First World War (John Keegan) ISBN 0-375-40052-4Good book covering the war and the lead up to August 1914.

To Win a War ISBN 0-304-35321-3 Covers the final year of the war.

At Belleau Wood ISBN 1-57441-016-4 Covers the battle, May-July 1918

Fix Bayonets ISBN 0-940328-06-2 Twentyfive 'seastories' from Belleau Wood to the Rhine and then on into peacetime.

I have some more books around the house, as I find them I'll post them here. If you have any questions, please ask.

Smuckatelli
02-26-12, 20:06
Now you have me digging through my junk...;)

I lead a Belleau Wood Battle Study in 2000, a pretty neat experience. I assigned Marines to conduct a briefing on numerous sites, here's what they had to use:

STOP________________ TITLE______________________

1. ORIENTATION – ORIENT THE GROUP TO THE BATTLE FIELD…IDENTIFY AREAS NECESSARY TO COMPREHEND EVENTS

• Key terrain
• Observation and fields of fire (Enemy- S.A.L.U.T.E)
• Cover and concealment
• Obstacles
• Avenues of approach
• Weather/astrological data

2. EVENTS – WHAT WERE THE KEY EVENTS, WHICH OCCURRED HERE? UNITS, PEOPLE, SIGNIFICANCE OF THE EVENTS…WHAT WAS THE RESULT OF THIS STOP? HOW DID IT RELATE TO OTHER ACTIONS THAT DAY.

3. TACTICAL ASPECTS – WPNS/TACTICS/NBC…COMPARE AND CONTRAST THE WEAPONS AND TACTICS USED THEN AND NOW AND THE IMPACT THEY HAD ON THE EVENTS ABOVE.

• ARTILLERY
• MACHINE GUNS
• RIFLES
• TACTICS
• NBC

4. HEROICS KEY PLAYERS – INDIVIDUALS WHO DISTINGUISHED THEMSELVES DURING THE EVENTS….ABOVE AND BEYOND…. THE IMPACT OF WHAT THEY DID OR FAILED TO DO.

5. LESSONS LEARNED – WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST TAKE AWAYS FROM THIS STOP?

BELLEAU WOOD
“EVENTS”

STOP 1-LES MARES FARM

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Describe the order the 5th Marines Commander, Col Neville, gave LtCol Wise, CO, 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines.

b. Explain the tactical situation of LtCol Wise’s choice of the village cemetery for his “CP”.

c. Describe the objectives assigned by LtCol Wise to his company commanders.

d. Describe any difficulties with communications and identify the most reliable means used.

e. Describe the events of 4 June 1918 in the vicinity of Les Mares Farm.

f. Describe the effect for the 2nd Division defense on the German offensive.

STOP 2-HILL 142 AND VAILLON SPRING

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Explain why the allies made the transition to the offense on 6 June 1918.

b. Describe the situation that confronted the lead companies as the attack progressed.

c. Describe what happened to Capt Hamilton’s 49th Company and identify the reasons why.

d. Identify who earned the Medal of Honor during this attack and the importance of his actions.


STOP 3-ROAD MARKER ON ROAD BETWEEN LUCY-LE-BOACAGE AND TORCY (ASSAULT BELLEAU WOOD)

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Explain the tasks assigned In Brigade Order No. 2 dated 6 June.

b. Describe the command and control situation on 6 June 1918 and the result.

c. Describe the 6 June attack of 3/5, and the results.

d. Describe the role of German observation balloons in the German defense.

STOP 4-VANTAGE POINT NEAR SOUTHWEST EDGE OF BELLEAU WOOD OVERLOOKING LUCY-BOURESCHES ROAD.

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Describe the disposition of 3/6 as it attacked the woods on 6 June as directed in Brigade Field Order No.2.

b. State the tactical significance of Gobart ditch “Gob’s Gully” with regard to Brigade operations against Belleau Wood.

c. State the result of the attack into the woods by 3/6 on 6 June.

d. State the role of supporting arms and their impact on the attacks.

e. Discuss the importance of unit boundaries and actions necessary with other supporting units.

STOP 5-VILLAGE OF BOURESCHES.

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Describe the attack of 2/6 against Bouresches.

b. Describe the movements of Captain Duncan’s 96th company and Captain Zane’s 79th company.

c. State the tactical significance of the village.

d. Identify on the map the terrain feature that elements of 2/6 Marines used to their advantage in their assault.

e. Identify what Naval Officer won the Medal of Honor during the assault against the village and describe what he did.

f. Describe the effects of poison gas on the Marine defenders in the village.

g. Describe the efforts of Lt Moore and SgtMaj Quick (HQ) on 6 June to relieve a critical situation in Bouresches.

STOP 6-FIGHTING POSITIONS IN BELLEAU WOOD.

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Describe the coordination problems between 1/6 and 2/5 during this phase of the attack.

b. State the causes of 2/5’s erroneous report to Brigade Headquarters on 11 June.

c. Describe the supply problems facing the units fighting in the woods.

STOP 7-IRON MIKE MEMORIAL IN THE CENTER OF BELLEAU WOOD.

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Describe the results of the planned relief of 2/5 by 2/6 on 13/14 June.

b. State the reasons for the relief of Marine units by the 7th Infantry.

c. State the results of 7th Infantry operations in the woods and the effect on subsequent Marine operations.

STOP 8-HUNTING LODGE.

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Describe the attack of 3/5 on 23 June and the difficulties encountered.

b. State the reasons for the withdrawal of the battalion from its forward positions on 24 June.

c. Describe the results of the Battalion’s attack on 25 June.

STOP 9-CEMETERY

Each Marine will be able to:

a. Describe what you can take away from this conclusion of the battle standing amongst all these graves.

b. What legacy has the Marines who sacrificed their lives at Belleau Wood, left us today?

c. How does our “Core Values” tie into Belleau Wood?



NOTE: EACH TEAM WILL HAVE BUTCHER BLOCK PAPER FOR THEIR DEMONSTRATIONS.

Smuckatelli
02-26-12, 20:07
Here's a pretty good link for S/A on the composition and training of our Marines back then:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AMH/XX/WWI/USMC/USMC-WWI.html

Abraxas
02-26-12, 20:42
Paris 1919. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0375760520/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1330310462&sr=8-1

DeltaSierra
02-26-12, 22:49
Then learn me...need to start somewhere.

bring it...;)

I'll try to put together a good list of books over the next week or so, and send you a private message when I have everything together....

Eurodriver
02-26-12, 23:25
I can't believe no one has mentioned The Guns of August. OP if you want to know every tactical decision made by the major players for the first 35 days of the war, its for you.

Also, Barbousse's Under Fire was written as a novel during the war. Its excellently written as even the author did not know the outcome of the war when it was written.

SteyrAUG
02-26-12, 23:46
WWI must read: A Rifleman Went To War by Herbert McBride. WWI history plus this book became to basis of the USMC sniper program in Vietnam. Pick up this new reprint from Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Rifleman-Went-War-Herbert-McBride/dp/1614271674/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1330288807&sr=8-2

First one I thought of.

And while not a book, I'd strongly recommend The First World War - The Complete Series (2005) (http://www.amazon.com/First-World-War-Complete/dp/B0009S2K9C/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1330321633&sr=1-2)

Basically it is the WWI equivalent to The World At War.

NWPilgrim
02-27-12, 03:18
I'll second the suggestions for Fix Bayonets! and A Rifleman Went to War. Both are superb classics.

Another personal account is His Time in Hell, by Jackson. These are all more of what it was like in the trenches, not the overall picture of what lead up to it, the strategic matters, etc.

Jeff Shaara wrote a good WWI novel called To the Last Man.

Redmanfms
02-27-12, 03:24
I can't believe no one has mentioned The Guns of August.

DeltaSierra did in the fourth post.

Redmanfms
02-27-12, 03:47
General Headquaters 1914-1916 by Erich von Falkenhayn. He wrote several other books on the war as well, but this is the only one I know of that was translated into English.

The First World War by Hugh Strachan. The basis for the mini-series.

Plus many of the books listed above.

Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler. Yeah, I know. Really though, you should read it. It not only gives some perspective on the German attitudes about the war, but gives you a much deeper understanding of why WWII was an inevitability after 1933.



ETA: He's a trick I learned for expanding your knowledge and having a never ending pile of books to read: Add all of the books in an author's works cited list (or whatever it's being called). You can usually discard primary source documents and interviews because you won't have easy access to them, but the books can be had and should be read. This is especially true if the author cites the work more than a couple times.

Trajan
02-27-12, 06:49
If you are interested in the diplomatic side of things, I recommend: The Art of The Possible: Documents On Great Power Diplomacy, 1814 - 1914 by Ralph Menning. I've had him as a professor, good guy.

While it isn't about the war itself, you'll see diplomatic cables leading up to the war, and get a good idea of what was going through their minds at the time.

crusader377
02-27-12, 08:03
I would recommend five different books.

"The Guns of August" and "To the Last Man" by Barbara Tuchman

"The Myth of the Great War" by John Mosier

"Infantry Attacks" by Erwin Rommel

and

"To End All Wars" by Adam Hochschild (Currently Reading)

"Guns of August" focuses on the start of the war and the roughly the first month of fighting. "To the Last Man" is about the 1918 German Spring Offensive which came very close to winning the war for the Germans in it wasn't for the decisive action by the newly arrived AEF which leads to the third book "The Myth of the Great War" in which Mosier makes a good argument the it was in fact the American's which won the war for the Allies despite our late arrival on the battlefield on 1918.

"Infantry Attacks" is a good book because you see the development of modern infantry tactics started in WWI with the exceptional combat performance of specialized German units like the mountain and Jaeger Bns (light infantry) and the German Stormtrooper units.

Finally, To End All Wars is more of a generalist history that also covers the much neglected home front and the social costs of the war.