View Full Version : Another F-ing School shooting.
What the hell is wrong with people today!
I didn't have the best time at school. No terrible but worse than a lot of kids. Yet I never had the desire to go in gun blazing.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/27/shooting-reported-at-ohio-high-school/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/27/ohio-high-school-on-lockdown-after-reports-shooting/
turdbocharged
02-27-12, 09:50
Yep Everyone's going nuts here about it. Rumor has it a teacher forced the gunman out of the school. Sad day, my thoughts go out to the victims.
deadlyfire
02-27-12, 09:52
I hope the injured students survive the night and make a speedy recovery.
It's a shame this event will be weaponized later on down the road.
Very sad.
I hope they all fully recover.
More victims of gun control.
Now reporting 1 dead + 4 injured.
(cnn.com)
I was just thinking on how best to prepare my son for something like this with my options form the extreme (give him a 1911) to reasonable (unarmed hand to hand training).
How young is too young to carry for self-defence? (rhetorical--but kinda how I'm feeling right now).
QuietShootr
02-27-12, 11:55
Apropos of nothing, isn't it a little interesting that these SEEM to pick up as election seasons approach?
deadlyfire
02-27-12, 12:01
I was just thinking on how best to prepare my son for something like this
Look into the armored backpack solutions. Discreet, quick deploy armor carrier. Throw it on and run like hell.
Easier, safer and legal.
*Edited*
Ummm. No. Please don't turn this into a theistic thread. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with what happened here.
Heavy Metal
02-27-12, 12:25
He must not have seen the "Gun Free Zone" signs.
This is where I'd like to send my little ones. (http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Channel/Public-Safety/News/2008/08/19/Teachers-to-Carry-Guns-in-Texas-School-District.aspx) It would appear that common sense has taken hold in Texas. Quote from the article:
Employees must obtain a Texas license to carry a concealed weapon. Additionally, they must be authorized by the district to carry a weapon; they must receive crisis management training and use ammunition that minimizes the risk of ricocheting bullets in the hallway.
CarlosDJackal
02-27-12, 13:02
Yep Everyone's going nuts here about it. Rumor has it a teacher forced the gunman out of the school. Sad day, my thoughts go out to the victims.
Yup:
The shooter was chased out of the building by a teacher and later turned himself in to a passerby, authorities said.
My prayers go out to the other victims.
My thoughts go out to those physically and emotionally hurt by this event.
turdbocharged
02-27-12, 14:08
Must have been hard for the arresting officers to not pound that kids face in.
montanadave
02-27-12, 14:44
Ummm. No. Please don't turn this into a theistic thread. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with what happened here.
Thank you.
My thoughts are with the victims, their families, and all those affected by these senseless act of violence.
Sounds like another kid from a ****ed up family who finally twisted off after taking shit from some other kids. Columbine let the genie out of the bottle and I'm afraid we'll never be able to stop these kinds of tragedies, because it's a situation getting played out time and time again in every school in the country. And a certain percentage of these kids are gonna find a gun and go looking for payback.
I am sure he drank water too. But I am pretty sure drinking water didn't contribute to his doing this. Correlation does not equal Causation.
For 30+ years we don't teach them that they answer to a creator
Presupposes that the athiests and agnostics of the world are all patently incapable of making positive moral decisions, based upon the lack of belief in or questioning the existence of a deity.
Ergo, clearly, monumentally unsupportable.
Folks that worship God, Jehova, Bhudda, Ganesh, Joe Pesci, Daffy Duck or nothing at all are all equally capable of being murderous assnuggets, and for any number of causal factors.
This is M4C, not an auto-da-fe where heretics and apostates may be publicly accused.
Just a Jarhead
02-27-12, 15:09
deleted
Thread cleaned.
Sophistry.
You can stop, or one of us can stop you.
He must not have seen the "Gun Free Zone" signs.
We guard our money with armed men, and or children with words. Priorities of the damned. RIP kids.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/gun-free-zone.jpg
We guard our money with armed men, and or children with words. Priorities of the damned. RIP kids.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/gun-free-zone.jpg
I've been wondering that for years. Police carry guns to protect the public, why not our schools. Afterall, "it's for the children."
An Undocumented Worker
02-27-12, 22:13
Here is some writing allegedly from the suspect.
In a time long since, a time of repent, The Renaissance. In a quaint lonely town, sits a man with a frown. No job. No family. No crown. His luck had run out. Lost and alone.
The streets were his home. His thoughts would solely consist of "why do we exist?" His only company to confide in was the vermin in the street. He longed for only one thing, the world to bow at his feet.
They too should feel his secret fear. The dismal drear. His pain had made him sincere. He was better than the rest, all those ones he detests, within their castles, so vain. Selfish and conceited.
They couldn't care less about the peasents they mistreated. They were in their own world, it was a joyous one too. That castle, she stood just to do all she could to keep the peasents at bay, not the enemy away.
They had no enemies in their filthy orgy. And in her, the castles every story, was just another chamber of Lucifer's Laboratory. The world is a sandbox for all the wretched sinners.
They simply create what they want and make themselves the winners. But the true winner, he has nothing at all. Enduring the pain of waiting for that castle to fall. Through his good deeds, the rats and the fleas.
He will have for what he pleads, through the eradication of disease. So, to the castle he proceeds, like an ominous breeze through the trees. "Stay back!" The Guards screamed as they were thrown to their knees. "Oh God, have mercy, please!"
The castle, she gasped and then so imprisoned her breath, to the shallow confines of her fragile chest. I'm on the lamb but I ain't no sheep. I am Death. And you have always been the sod. So repulsive and so odd.
You never even deserved the presence of God, and yet, I am here. Around your cradle I plod. Came on foot, without shod. How improper, how rude. However, they shall not mind the mud on my feet if there is blood on your sheet.
Now! Feel death, not just mocking you. Not just stalking you but inside of you. Wriggle and writhe. Feel smaller beneath my might. Seizure in the Pestilence that is my scythe. Die, all of you.
Kid sounds like a real megalomaniac.
Read more at the link.
http://globalgrind.com/node/827141#ixzz1ncr1DJXk
Now reporting 1 dead + 4 injured.
(cnn.com)
I was just thinking on how best to prepare my son for something like this with my options form the extreme (give him a 1911) to reasonable (unarmed hand to hand training).
How young is too young to carry for self-defence? (rhetorical--but kinda how I'm feeling right now).
:blink:
Umm, how about being reasonable and just teaching him to find the nearest exit and exfil should something sketchy start going down.
Sending him to a private school wouldn't hurt either. These shootings always seem to happen at government schools.
Here is some writing allegedly from the suspect.
Kid sounds like a real megalomaniac.
Read more at the link.
http://globalgrind.com/node/827141#ixzz1ncr1DJXk
Malignant narcissist.
Now reporting 1 dead + 4 injured.
(cnn.com)
I was just thinking on how best to prepare my son for something like this with my options form the extreme (give him a 1911) to reasonable (unarmed hand to hand training).
How young is too young to carry for self-defence? (rhetorical--but kinda how I'm feeling right now).
Teachers should be armed, or at least allowed to be armed. The schooling, background check, and general character required of teachers is higher than that required for police. We already let police carry guns in school.
Honestly I don't' think armed minors is a good idea. It's a big responsibility. The bottom line is schools are made into soft targets by ridiculous legislation that demonizes firearms. The administration has failed the students by allowing this to happen.
The_War_Wagon
02-28-12, 00:31
Look for Sarah Brady, to swoop in like a vulture - with the answer, to the question no one's asking! :rolleyes:
I just saw that another victim has died. Not a good way to start the day.
Teachers should be armed, or at least allowed to be armed. The schooling, background check, and general character required of teachers is higher than that required for police. We already let police carry guns in school.
Honestly I don't' think armed minors is a good idea. It's a big responsibility. The bottom line is schools are made into soft targets by ridiculous legislation that demonizes firearms. The administration has failed the students by allowing this to happen.
Not wanting to start a argument, But, "general character" of teachers?..Where I live here in OH, We've had several teachers in the local SD in the last few years who were thought to be molesting the kids.. All of them quit (retired) when presented with the evidence..Food for thought..In Ohio, school teachers are not required to take a drug test at any time..(thanks to the NEA) I work construction..I have to prove I took a drug test to get a job, take another as part of the hire in process, and be subjected to random testing while I'm there.. I'm not so sure I'd want to arm a bunch of teachers, many of which could'nt pass a drug test, to protect the kids... Maybe, if they could pick out 3-4, for each school, ( if possible, with a military, LE, backround, and be able to pass a drug test) and train them and arm them, I'd go for that, But to arm all of them? no, many could'nt handle it, and it'd end up being a disaster...
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-28-12, 09:39
:blink:
Umm, how about being reasonable and just teaching him to find the nearest exit and exfil should something sketchy start going down.
Sending him to a private school wouldn't hurt either. These shootings always seem to happen at government schools.
That is really interesting! Can anyone point out a private school shooting? Considering that a lot of kids go to private school, you'd think we'd have seen some incidents?
Call them Public School shootings.
Not wanting to start a argument, But, "general character" of teachers?..Where I live here in OH, We've had several teachers in the local SD in the last few years who were thought to be molesting the kids.. All of them quit (retired) when presented with the evidence...Food for thought..In Ohio, school teachers are not required to take a drug test at any time..(thanks to the NEA) I work construction..I have to prove I took a drug test to get a job, take another as part of the hire in process, and be subjected to random testing while I'm there.. I'm not so sure I'd want to arm a bunch of teachers, many of which could'nt pass a drug test, to protect the kids... Maybe, if they could pick out 3-4, for each school, ( if possible, with a military, LE, backround, and be able to pass a drug test) and train them and arm them, I'd go for that, But to arm all of them? no, many could'nt handle it, and it'd end up being a disaster...
Let's deal with reality. If you don't think there are the same type of people in the military or in LE you need to read the news more. Do you honestly think that what you've described is any different than law enforcement or any other career field that deals with the public trust? It's not indicative of teachers and from my observations the people who tend to be predators flock to those types of positions from teachers, to police to priests. Any and all of these types of professions are very likely to bring child molesters, pedophiles and kiddie porn sickos like moths to a flame.
deadlyfire
02-28-12, 10:00
To further this detour: I've met more drug users and general jacked up people to include a convicted rapist in the military than anywhere else.
Bill Bryant
02-28-12, 10:05
When a society falls apart, it drags down everyone in all occupations. No one is safe from anyone anymore--even less so if they work for the government.
That is really interesting! Can anyone point out a private school shooting? Considering that a lot of kids go to private school, you'd think we'd have seen some incidents?
Call them Public School shootings.
I was talking about this with a friend last night. Not saying this is true, but neither us could recall a student on student(s) shooting in a ghetto public school either, other than maybe some gang turf dispute. So it seems it may be a white, middle-class, public school phenomenon? And, if so, why?
Edited to add: Oops, I forgot about the Asian shooter at Virginia Tech. So maybe it isn't exclusively white, but I still wonder why no ghetto public schools?
God bless the victims & thier families. On another note, this is a huge blow to the gun community. With all the other school shootings & the recent AZ shooting, this is the perfect excuse for obama & the anti's to justify (in their minds) more gun control.
It appears yet another "outcast" bullied kid and possibly I have a softspot (I am not condoning, or excusing his actions--I have been to his hell and it is very much hell) as I was mercilessly bullied until I exploded with rage (I didn't have a gun). For all our "caring and sharing" in life--People are not nice. And you don't stop people from being mean by asking nicely or having a no bullying policy.
I was taught to have some self respect and stand up to the a-holes who made my life miserable instead of running to some teacher. I was also told my parents had my back even if the school system didnt. I still have a tough time with it and I'm nearing 40. But I teach the same thing to my kinds. Only YOU can watch out for yourself. THe school system doesn't care no matter how much your proclain your policy. The fast way to stop a bully is a punch to the face. It may save lives in the end.
I guess what I am trying to say is we are taught to repress our anger and play nice. Instead of bottling up our anger--it needs to be released in a more healthy manner. Its ok to be angry--its ok to be pissed off. its when you supres that anger that it builds into a bottle rocket of rage. That doesn't always mean a physical attack--it could just be as simple as "DUDE YOU REALLY PISS ME OFF"
I realize this is a very dark/cynical post that borders on advocated violence. But I'd much rather have some bumps and bruises on our kids than having 2 in the morgue and 1 in jail.
Bill Bryant
02-28-12, 10:25
I was constantly bullied in school. I was the skinny kid everybody makes jokes about when he puts on a basketball uniform. You should see me in my 1971 yearbook. I remember many nights crying alone in my room after school.
In never occurred to me, though, not once, not ever, not in my wildest rages, ever to get a gun and go shoot my tormentors.
Why? Two reasons I think.
One, my parents were diligent to instill a moral compass in me. They believed in objective good and evil and trained me to believe in a real moral order myself.
Two, the media wasn't stupid enough, or arrogant enough, or agenda driven enough in those days to fuel the fantasies of every skinny kid in school wishing he could "show them" someday. Today's media isn't responsible directly for these shootings, I'm not saying that at all, but they have cultivated the soil for them and unnecessarily planted the seeds for them time and time again.
Does any of this remove blame from the boy with the pistol? Does the fact that kids grow up today without an effective moral compass orientation and inspired by media-enhanced events excuse him? No, no, a thousand times no. He and he alone is the murderer. He and he alone is morally responsible for this evil deed.
I was constantly bullied in school. I was the skinny kid everybody makes jokes about when he puts on a basketball uniform. You should see me in my 1971 yearbook. I remember many nights crying alone in my room after school.
In never occurred to me, though, not once, not ever, not in my wildest rages, ever to get a gun and go shoot my tormentors.
I will admidt, it certainly did to me--but that was late 80s and 90s. The difference is the depression--if you suffer from depresssion (and not Hollywood's exscuse for bad behavior)--you are a sick individual (And I was/am very sick for a long time). If you become suicidal, you no longer value your own life--if you don't value your own life, what is the value of other's life? I think we get suicidal/depressed people in stereotypes of loners who hang themselves in the closet--some of them losing all moral compass lash out into society--life has lost meaning to both themselves AND others.
One of the biggest misses in depression is we think of depressed people as "sad" or "lethargic". That is present in one set--but there is another set--"anger" and "rage" Those writings are clearly rage--while some of you seen meglamania--its pure rage and anger of someone losing control. Depressed people DO lose control. One of the ways you lose control is when you bottle that anger and frustration day after day--your body/brain just can't handle it. And I think that's where we as a society have failed--we have failed to teach ourselves the proper ways to deal with anger--we just repress it--espeically in men. (In some ways related to PTSD--the stress just becomes too much--it may insult some of you to compare a school shooter with PTSD, but its the same thing when Good people get pushed beyond their limits without help they do bad things--in PTSD its the brain's failure to combat external issues, while depression is an internal issue--but either way the brain is broken).
Again this is not an excuse for the actions--but hopefully a wake up call to recognize and get people help when they need it.
I don't know guys. I suffer from depression. Really bad depression in fact that meds barely keep in control. But even at my worst I never thought about going and shooting people because they said something. I am in no way saying that tormented kids don't just break. Obviously we know they do. But I think that like most things in life it isn't a matter of black and white. There are to many factors.
the way a person is wired, the way a person is raised, society, how are they tormented, and 50 other things. Kids every day fit the "profile" to go shoot up a school but they never do. Hell by the profile I should go on a shooting spree and take out dozens of people. But I just don't think that way. I would be the one defending those some people that hate me at risk of my own life. Just as I am pretty sure most of the other people here would.
I just don't get it.
I don't know guys. I suffer from depression. Really bad depression in fact that meds barely keep in control. But even at my worst I never thought about going and shooting people because they said something. I am in no way saying that tormented kids don't just break. Obviously we know they do. But I think that like most things in life it isn't a matter of black and white. There are to many factors.
the way a person is wired, the way a person is raised, society, how are they tormented, and 50 other things. Kids every day fit the "profile" to go shoot up a school but they never do. Hell by the profile I should go on a shooting spree and take out dozens of people. But I just don't think that way. I would be the one defending those some people that hate me at risk of my own life. Just as I am pretty sure most of the other people here would.
I just don't get it.
Very true.
I guess I am troubled by the "Why when I snapped didn't I shoot the place up" (Guilt becuase I did the right thing--yeah thats not messed up) Its tough sometimes for me to separate me from these kids because I see so much of what happeded to me--and it seems others--and yet we still can't put our finger on what separates these individuals. Its both a very thin line and also monumental gap.
On the one hand
"Kid was just like me--experienced same things"
On the other hand
"I may have thought about it--but I never acted on it--not even close"
I got nothing and perhaps should stop trying to figure it out.
Just take care of your friends and family. Be safe my friends.
Very true.
I guess I am troubled by the "Why when I snapped didn't I shoot the place up" (Guilt becuase I did the right thing--yeah thats not messed up) Its tough sometimes for me to separate me from these kids because I see so much of what happeded to me--and it seems others--and yet we still can't put our finger on what separates these individuals. Its both a very thin line and also monumental gap.
On the one hand
"Kid was just like me--experienced same things"
On the other hand
"I may have thought about it--but I never acted on it--not even close"
I got nothing and perhaps should stop trying to figure it out.
Just take care of your friends and family. Be safe my friends.
I hear you my friend. People who haven't experienced it don't understand. I hear things like "Man the **** up" or "Push through it" My reply is usually a big **** you! You can pretend to be happy. But in the end it is an act. You smile while with you friends when all you want to do is scream at the top of your lungs for help.
I understand the pain these kids are in. I really do. I could even understand them killing themselves. But I don't understand the killing others. Beat the hell out of them? Sure. I did that many times. Kicked ass and sometimes got my ass kicked. But at least I fought and didn't shoot people.
You made the right choice. Don't question that. There is no question that some people just need killing. But the bar is much higher than a few bullies in High School.
More victims of gun control.
Agreed.
Not wanting to start a argument, But, "general character" of teachers?..Where I live here in OH, We've had several teachers in the local SD in the last few years who were thought to be molesting the kids.. All of them quit (retired) when presented with the evidence..Food for thought..In Ohio, school teachers are not required to take a drug test at any time..(thanks to the NEA) I work construction..I have to prove I took a drug test to get a job, take another as part of the hire in process, and be subjected to random testing while I'm there.. I'm not so sure I'd want to arm a bunch of teachers, many of which could'nt pass a drug test, to protect the kids... Maybe, if they could pick out 3-4, for each school, ( if possible, with a military, LE, backround, and be able to pass a drug test) and train them and arm them, I'd go for that, But to arm all of them? no, many could'nt handle it, and it'd end up being a disaster...
I know others have already responded, but I said the general character required of teachers is higher than that of LE. I don't think anti LE rants are appropriate for this site or anywhere else, but there's certainly no shortage of stories of law enforcement abusing their power.
I actually think that teachers should be able to carry in compliance with CCW in their state or perhaps a more loosely regulated form of CCW for areas that are not shall issue. ie-it should require training, but be very available to any teacher who is interested.
I think drug tests for anything are bullshit, and i have no interest in discussing this view here.
I don't know guys. I suffer from depression. Really bad depression in fact that meds barely keep in control. But even at my worst I never thought about going and shooting people because they said something. I am in no way saying that tormented kids don't just break. Obviously we know they do. But I think that like most things in life it isn't a matter of black and white. There are to many factors.
the way a person is wired, the way a person is raised, society, how are they tormented, and 50 other things. Kids every day fit the "profile" to go shoot up a school but they never do. Hell by the profile I should go on a shooting spree and take out dozens of people. But I just don't think that way. I would be the one defending those some people that hate me at risk of my own life. Just as I am pretty sure most of the other people here would.
I just don't get it.
These kids aren't suffering from depression. They usually "suffer" from antisocial and/or narcissistic personality disorders. Depressed kids hurt themselves, malignant narcissists and sociopaths/psychopaths hurt everyone around them.
I've not studied the phenomenon deeply enough to have a working thesis, but my hunch is that these kids are the products of a society in which they are rewarded and acclaimed regardless of accomplishment. When they start reaching an age where the veneer has worn off and they figure out others don't think they are the center of the known universe, they "snap" and "teach them a lesson" about how awesome and powerful they are. Again, that's my hunch.
These kids aren't suffering from depression. They usually "suffer" from antisocial and/or narcissistic personality disorders. Depressed kids hurt themselves, malignant narcissists and sociopaths/psychopaths hurt everyone around them.
I've not studied the phenomenon deeply enough to have a working thesis, but my hunch is that these kids are the products of a society in which they are rewarded and acclaimed regardless of accomplishment. When they start reaching an age where the veneer has worn off and they figure out others don't think they are the center of the known universe, they "snap" and "teach them a lesson" about how awesome and powerful they are. Again, that's my hunch.
I'd say that you hit the nail on the head - nice job. FYI, you seem to have a much better grasp of the Cluster B personality disorders than most psychiatrists that I meet.
One of the things I found interesting was the vast majority of school shootings, if not all, have been perpetrated by people who are on antidepressant drugs. Is it possible that one of the rare side effects of these drugs is for somebody to go batshit crazy and have a psychotic episode? I'm not a doc, don't take drugs and don't know much about the subject but it would seem to me that it's a distinct possibility.
One of the things I found interesting was the vast majority of school shootings, if not all, have been perpetrated by people who are on antidepressant drugs. Is it possible that one of the rare side effects of these drugs is for somebody to go batshit crazy and have a psychotic episode? I'm not a doc, don't take drugs and don't know much about the subject but it would seem to me that it's a distinct possibility.
I suppose that's possible. Take severely mentally disturbed kid, add drugs that affect brain chemistry, get extreme violence. I suspect most of these kids are horribly misdiagnosed in the first place so the problem with the drug therapy is that it's treating a disorder they don't have. Instead of Zoloft or Paxil these kids should be getting clozapine or risperidone. Or be institutionalized. ETA: Of course, the problem with narcissistic personality disorder in particular is that it doesn't always involve classical psychopathy. Children (even the normal ones) also tend to be definable as psychopaths anyway. This makes diagnosis pretty tricky. Besides, the parents of these children almost always seem to be completely oblivious. So as long as little Johnny keeps getting the grades and the family pets don't start disappearing they aren't going to seek medical attention for them.
The only problem with the idea is that these little turds don't just "snap" they actually spend a very long time planning and fantasizing about the crime. Drug reactions (like suicidal thoughts) are usually damn near instantaneous and don't typically involve mental "control" like planning or fantasy do.
Irish you may be partially right. Meds properly taken for the correct ailment tend to be very safe. But many times with children we have them being given the wrong meds. Normal teenage behavior is diagnosed as ADD or Manic Depression. So they get drugged up with stuff that just makes things worse. Add to that the ever changing chemistry of a child or teenagers body and you have a real mess on your hands.
So while you may have a point don't blame just the drugs. Frankly if not for the Meds I am on I probably would not be here talking to you all.
The only problem with the idea is that these little turds don't just "snap" they actually spend a very long time planning and fantasizing about the crime. Drug reactions (like suicidal thoughts) are usually damn near instantaneous and don't typically involve mental "control" like planning or fantasy do.
Interesting. Is it conceivable that the drug would alter their thought patterns over time through changing the chemical reactions in the brain? I know that one of the more common side effects of pharmaceutical drugs is insomnia and that can certainly drive someone to a long term altered state of mind and most definitely affects judgement, perception and reality for the person.
I'm a tadpole in the deep end on this one and am mostly thinking out loud for lack of a better term.
One of the things I found interesting was the vast majority of school shootings, if not all, have been perpetrated by people who are on antidepressant drugs. Is it possible that one of the rare side effects of these drugs is for somebody to go batshit crazy and have a psychotic episode? I'm not a doc, don't take drugs and don't know much about the subject but it would seem to me that it's a distinct possibility.
Acute psychosis (hallucinations, delusion, paranoia, etc.) is not a common feature of starting an SSRI which is the prototypical class of prescribed antidepressants. In addition, I've not heard of acute psychosis causing these shootings - it seems to be personality disorders and conduct disturbances that are a common feature of school shooters. On the other hand, sudden suicidal behavior is a known feature of starting these medications in people who are depressed. The exact reason is not known, but it is thought to be due to the medication improving the negative symptoms of depression (apathy, anhedonia, fatigue) before the mood improves. Thus, the depressed person has more drive or willpower to act on the depressed mood leading to suicide. This risk is probably most pronounced in the first 4-6 weeks since the improvements in mood (if you believe they actually exist) take this long to be felt.
It is not hard to imagine a scenerio where this phenomenon has a detrimental effect on a kid with severe conduct disturbance / antisocial / narcissistic personality disorder and some features of depression. Adding the medicine removes the apathy and negative motivation of depression leaving you with Michael Meyers...
No (to Irish's comment)--although the drugs do carry an increased risk of suicide--Anger is a side effect of depression (and possibly other things) not the drugs. Anti-depressants aren't a magic bullet--its a black art of trial and error--It took them 5 trials to get mine right (thats 5 separate medications, not even talking dosage)--at that doesn't even count when I went to the true Physchiatrist who's assistants basically let me self medicate. What works for one person, doesn't work for another. Ask any truthful doctor and they will admidt its very much a work in progress to figure this out.
Again people think depression only leads to suicide and self harm and fail to realize that growing sensation of powerlessness can and does lead to anger and rage in some cases
The real question is what pushes someone from a normal outburst temper tantrum (I've beaten inanimate objects to smithereens, screamed things at family members,e tc...) to a calculated killer. You don't plan outbursts--they just happen. This shooting was planned.
It is not hard to imagine a scenerio where this phenomenon has a detrimental effect on a kid with severe conduct disturbance / antisocial / narcissistic personality disorder and some features of depression. Adding the medicine removes the apathy and negative motivation of depression leaving you with Michael Meyers...
Interesting.
Irish you may be partially right. Meds properly taken for the correct ailment tend to be very safe. But many times with children we have them being given the wrong meds. Normal teenage behavior is diagnosed as ADD or Manic Depression. So they get drugged up with stuff that just makes things worse. Add to that the ever changing chemistry of a child or teenagers body and you have a real mess on your hands.
So while you may have a point don't blame just the drugs. Frankly if not for the Meds I am on I probably would not be here talking to you all.
Unplug them from their iPhone, X-Box and exploring internet porn with their buddies and kick their asses outside to play so they can burn off some of that ADD hyperness. :) I know there are kids and adult with real problems but I think we throw around far too many labels and way too early. They're kids being kids but most adults don't want to deal with their kids and would rather plug them into Elmo's world than actually interacting with them.
I also think a large part of the problem is the sedentary lifestyle they live along with way too much instant gratification and all the email on the go and electronics make people crazy. How many times a day do you, in general not specifically you, check your Blackberry/iPhone for emails, Facebook updates and comments? For a lot of people I'd consider the internet to be addicting, myself included. I'm online alot due to work and farting around on here and PF.com but I don't think I have a problem...
I'm definitely not blaming the drugs just throwing it out there. Good versation thus far.
I'm a tadpole in the deep end on this one and am mostly thinking out loud for lack of a better term.
I'm certainly no medical doctor, nor am I a mental health professional. I've just had a long standing curiosity on the matter and have done some research. A copy of the DSM-IV and boredom, coupled with a morbid desire to figure out what is "wrong" with people I know have driven me farther than most.
Let me clarify my position by stating I'm in no way trying to denegrate anyone who has any type of psychiatric needs or takes any type of medication. I'm just a dumb Mick who's trying to glean more information from people who are far more knowledgeable than myself.
Don't jump the gun and think I'm trying to insult anyone. And if you have thought that maybe you need to get your meds checked. LOL!
I think we throw around far too many labels and way too early. They're kids being kids but most adults don't want to deal with their kids and would rather plug them into Elmo's world than actually interacting with them.
Indeed--bipolar/depression/etc get tossed around a lot to where people with real problems become marginialized becuase some people won't jsut address issues--its easier to blame a disease/disorder.
way too much instant gratification.
Not just the kids--parents and society. We demand FIX IT NOW!! What finally broke my depression was years of therpay and medication--and therapy was hard work--I had to change thinging and behaviors. I busted my butt to change things--you just don't take pills and it is all better--but too many people think that--including parents--oh my kid is on meds--all is better now! No way no how--these disorders aren't cured--they are managed--and that means daily activity as if you are training for a marathon.
Let's deal with reality. If you don't think there are the same type of people in the military or in LE you need to read the news more. Do you honestly think that what you've described is any different than law enforcement or any other career field that deals with the public trust? It's not indicative of teachers and from my observations the people who tend to be predators flock to those types of positions from teachers, to police to priests. Any and all of these types of professions are very likely to bring child molesters, pedophiles and kiddie porn sickos like moths to a flame.
No, I'm well aware that predators exist in many areas of public service,
And that's exactly my point...The "general character" of teachers is'nt any better than anybody else's, And that was the example I used..I was refering to Skygo's comment, to which I had replied..
One of the things I found interesting was the vast majority of school shootings, if not all, have been perpetrated by people who are on antidepressant drugs. Is it possible that one of the rare side effects of these drugs is for somebody to go batshit crazy and have a psychotic episode? I'm not a doc, don't take drugs and don't know much about the subject but it would seem to me that it's a distinct possibility.
I have seen a documentary and read a few papers on this.
I just heard on the 11 o'clock news, (unless it was reported earlier, I don't know if it was)..another victim died... I believe that's 3.. News reports are now saying shooter says victims were picked out randomly...
No, I'm well aware that predators exist in many areas of public service,
And that's exactly my point...The "general character" of teachers is'nt any better than anybody else's, And that was the example I used..I was refering to Skygo's comment, to which I had replied..
I might have misinterpreted your post, it happens occasionally. Thank you for clarifying.
It's very disheartening, sickening actually, when someone in a position of trust takes advantage of their status in the community to prey on innocent victims. That isn't intended towards any particular person, uniform, career title or anything else, read it for what it is.
I have seen a documentary and read a few papers on this.
I'm trying to read and learn more about it now. It's a really complicated subject... The human brain is a mysterious thing unto itself.
QuietShootr
02-28-12, 23:31
I might have misinterpreted your post, it happens occasionally. Thank you for clarifying.
It's very disheartening, sickening actually, when someone in a position of trust takes advantage of their status in the community to prey on innocent victims. That isn't intended towards any particular person, uniform, career title or anything else, read it for what it is.
I'm trying to read and learn more about it now. It's a really complicated subject... The human brain is a mysterious thing unto itself.
All I know is, kids today know shit about OPSEC. Debra LaFave could have been wearing my ass out from 6th grade on and you wouldn't have been able to get that shit out of me with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...because I'd have known the minute I blabbed, the pussy would stop.
I did once bang our neighbor's hot 30 y.o. wife when I was 15, so I think that should count, though.
All I know is, kids today know shit about OPSEC. Debra LaFave could have been wearing my ass out from 6th grade on and you wouldn't have been able to get that shit out of me with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...because I'd have known the minute I blabbed, the pussy would stop.
I did once bang our neighbor's hot 30 y.o. wife when I was 15, so I think that should count, though.
You crack me up on a daily basis. If ever our paths cross I owe you a couple beers.
VooDoo6Actual
02-29-12, 04:02
Notice minimalized controlled/censored media exposure regarding the ICE Agent fatal shooting in Long Beach, CA.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8547306
All I know is, kids today know shit about OPSEC. Debra LaFave could have been wearing my ass out from 6th grade on and you wouldn't have been able to get that shit out of me with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch...because I'd have known the minute I blabbed, the pussy would stop.
I did once bang our neighbor's hot 30 y.o. wife when I was 15, so I think that should count, though.
PICS or it didnt happen! :D
On a serious note:
Notice minimalized controlled/censored media exposure regarding the ICE Agent fatal shooting in Long Beach, CA.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...les&id=8547306
That is very peculiar--hadn't heard of that AT ALL and I'm a news hound.
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