Oxygen tank...

[KJDrake]

Looking for a O2 tank that is small enough to put in an early model Camelback BFM. I would like to run 12-15 LPM for 10-15 minutes.

I have already put together the "wounds" pouches, medications, splints and C-collar, etc...and there is still lots of room. I'm primarily going to be using this to keep in the car and for my son's soccer games...there are six games going on at once and no ambulance or medical team in sight. So I at least want to be able to take care of my kid until the bus arrives.

Just looking for something light and compact.

Saw these but would like some feedback.

http://www.cpr-savers.com/Industrials/Cpr%20prod/oxygentank.html
http://www.cpr-savers.com/Industrials/oxygen%20supply/ultra-light-carbon-coposite-oxygen-cylinders.html

Thanks

Respectfully,

--KJ

[North Dakota Shooter]

Would recomend that instead of oxygen, you get and aed, that's a more likely senario and what you need it for, it makes more sense, on the down side there reallt expensive.

[KJDrake]

Would recomend that instead of oxygen, you get and aed, that's a more likely senario and what you need it for, it makes more sense, on the down side there reallt expensive.

Thanks, but right now I'm looking for a tank/regulator setup.

Respectfully,

--KJ

[Ghost__1]

This is probably one of those "no shit guy" pieces of advice but most cities and Towns have a pretty decent medical supply store. If you get the chance and haven't already stop in and take a look around. My local store is packed with everything from trauma care to fire rescue equip. I'm willing to bet they have a tank that meets your criteria. Just a thought

[Iraq Ninja]

I suggest getting EMOX. We started using them in Iraq due to the dangers of IED blasts. Though we kept tanks on the roof, the EMOX was on the inside of the vehicles.

The O2 is produced by a chemical reaction and the stuff held up well. You mix with water and the O2 is released.

Oh, and it is much lighter than carrying around a tank.

Maybe not as handy as a tank, for not a bad option for SHTF situations.

http://www.swemox.se/emox_english.html

http://www.swemox.se/bilder/emox1.jpg

[KJDrake]

That's really interesting...I never even heard of that EMOX before. I will definitely look into that. Thanks.

I use a O2 tank at work...but that's what MY agency went with...not necessarily what the best option is. Also, what I use at work isn't exactly what I need. Since that's the only type I use I am just looking to get some other insight. I don't want to go to the store and ask the guy selling the stuff what he thinks is best...at least not yet. Would rather buy once cry once.

Respectfully,

--KJ

[SteveL]

Do you have the means of having a tank filled/refilled with Oxygen? How is Oxygen regulated where you live?

[KJDrake]

Yes, sir...Getting it filled is not a problem.

Respectfully,

--KJ

[lethal dose]

You could face a serious lawsuit administering o2 without medical control standing orders or an Rx.

[KJDrake]

You could face a serious lawsuit administering o2 without medical control standing orders or an Rx.

Yes, sir that is correct. There are lots of medicines and procedures I am NOT allowed to admin (aspirin for example)...Oxygen is not one of them though. I appreciate the concern.

Respectfully,

--KJ

[thirteen/autumns]

+1 for the emOx idea

have used it in the field agree with ninja not as handy as a tank but if you are serious about lugging around o2 then best bet for you. o2 flow rate is dependant on how much h2o you add though but I am sure that wouldn't be a problem and the tank does get hot... Not can't even touch the tank but I wouldn't place it between a pts legs on a gurney/board. not sure how some mother will act when you start pouring something into a container then place the mask on the kids face though LOL. :/

[Robryan]

The Oxygen that is used in Oxy Acetylene torches is the same as medical the only difference is the color of the tank even filled from the same tank from the suppliers. So they are easy to buy and refill.
Cylinder oxygen used on Oxygen- Acetylene produced from vaporized liquid oxygen. Its minimum guaranteed purity is 99.5 percent.

[SteveL]

Yes, sir that is correct. There are lots of medicines and procedures I am NOT allowed to admin (aspirin for example)...Oxygen is not one of them though. I appreciate the concern.

Respectfully,

--KJ

Would you mind disclosing which state you're in and your level of training? Just curious.

[lethal dose]

Would you mind disclosing which state you're in and your level of training? Just curious.

i was wondering the same thing. i, for one, am not into playing ricky rescue. i suppose if it were for your son and your son ONLY, there might be the whole moral obligation thing on your part. BUT... i can assure you that in the state of south carolina (and most other states) you are not allowed to administer o2 without being on the clock. just because it is within your scope of practice does not mean that you are gonna be covered by some good Samaritan clause. if i were to see someone who sustained injuries of whatever nature while out and about and they didn't have a patent airway, i wouldn't even dream of tubing them... may be in my scope of practice, but it's practicing medicine off the clock. i would do what i could at the most elementary level possible to sustain life and limb until a cert on the clock arrived. if you are an EMT, i encourage you to ask your medical director if their standing orders cover you administering o2 off the clock... i'd be surprised if he said they would. my medical director is a bang up dude and he trusts me greatly... but i know for a fact that if i run around playing batman off the clock and a civil issue comes of it, he'll throw me under the bus faster then a bowel movement affected by a mexican water parasite.

[MIKE G]

Medical Oxygen is a regulated medication and as such requires a prescription or other medical authorization (i.e. agency authorization). Otherwise someone in LE with an axe to grind could make your life difficult or an OMD (you mentioned an agency) that doesn't appreciate you at the moment could make life difficult depending on your state. Some states allow EMTs to carry O2 in POV/off duty.

You don't seem to want to expand on the details such as your training and background, why you think your kid needs O2 standing by when he is healthy enough to play sports like soccer (maybe he has asthma, who knows), or any other details which you could easily research using a cursory google search.

An M6 tank contains 164L of O2 and using a basic O2 calculator you can run that at 12lpm for around 9 minutes. That is enough for a non-rebreather or a nebulizer.

[Iraq Ninja]

I think it is important to differentiate between people we give a shit about, and people we run into who may need assistance.

I am not worried about legal ramifications when it comes to those within my immediate gene pool. I have the training and experience, and that is the key with this stuff.

The emox system is cave man simple and combat proven. If you understand the complexities of trauma life support, it is a proven option with gunshot and blast trauma. It may not be as good as a tank, but it is better than sucking normal atmospheric O2 with a compromised circulatory system.

[Ghost__1]

I think it is important to differentiate between people we give a shit about, and people we run into who may need assistance.

I am not worried about legal ramifications when it comes to those within my immediate gene pool. I have the training and experience, and that is the key with this stuff.

The emox system is cave man simple and combat proven. If you understand the complexities of trauma life support, it is a proven option with gunshot and blast trauma. It may not be as good as a tank, but it is better than sucking normal atmospheric O2 with a compromised circulatory system.

I tend to agree with this as its been driven into my head that's its better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. Not really applicable but asking the same mindset. I don't have any real medic training besides some cls so I obviously stay in my lane but I would do anything to save the live of any of you. anyone else for that matter.

[lethal dose]

i'll agree with ya, ninja... if by gene pool you mean family. in a post a month or two back, i stated that i would do everything i know how to do and them some if you are in "my circle". outside the circle? sorry... not worth my cert, jail time, fines, etc. i'll keep you alive on a basic level until my patch wearing friends show up.

[Iraq Ninja]

I think we need to clarify the legal situation so we don't have more people saying "oh my, you will get in trouble for using it in an emergency".

I can't find the exact FDA regulation, but here is a good summary-


13.) Does emergency oxygen require a doctor's prescription?
NO. Oxygen is a drug when it is given in concentrations beyond what is in ambient air and when used for medical treatment. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the regulating government agency for medical oxygen, requires a prescription, but has EXEMPTED this requirement for emergency applications IF the user has had training in its use. Since September 1996 the FDA requires all medical oxygen sold in the U.S. to bear the following statement on the label: “For emergency use only when administered by properly trained personnel for oxygen deficiency and resuscitation. For all other medical applications, Rx Only”. In order to be considered as an over-the-counter (OTC) device, i.e., “non-prescription”, the oxygen delivery system must provide a minimum flow rate of 6 liters per minute for a minimum of 15 minutes.

[lethal dose]

I'll have to look into this. I will assume state or department laws may very well be able to supersede this. If not, I'll eat crow.

[Texas42]

Maybe my head isn't thinking clearly, but I can't think of a likely situation where oxygen is going to help a child at a soccor game.

[Hmac]

Maybe my head isn't thinking clearly, but I can't think of a likely situation where oxygen is going to help a child at a soccor game.

Asthma attack, or congestive heart failure from an undiagnosed congenital heart anomaly, off the top of my head. That said, I agree that the likelihood that emergency oxygen in your vehicle will save some previously-healthy child's life at the soccer field while waiting for EMS is going to be extremely low. In general, everyone is going to be in far more danger driving to and from the soccer field than they are at the soccer field. Probably more cost-effective and more likely life-saving to get helmets and body armor for all the kids in the car.

I can't relate to all this SHTF/EOTWAKI/disaster prepping stuff, but on the scale of things that true believers might want to stock up on, I'm thinking that supplemental O2 would be relatively low on the scale.

[MIKE G]

I had a long response typed up but in the end it doesn't matter. The info the OP was looking for is posted above in my first post. I personally don't see the reason to have O2 on hand unless the kid has some kind of past medical history. Obviously the guy can get his hands on the gear and will likely not get in trouble, ultimately if he does it is on him.

[SBushong]

I used one of these, back in my technical diving days. Obviously, you don't need the case that it comes in. The weigh around four pounds.

http://www.remotemedical.com/Seahorse-Portable-Airway-Kit

[Hmac]

Obviously the guy can get his hands on the gear and will likely not get in trouble, ultimately if he does it is on him.

Yeh, that's the bottom line I guess. We all tend to be "gear accumulators" and logic and need don't necessarily play a role. I agree, I see negligible potential for him to get in any trouble. These devices like eMox will only get you an FIO2 of about 25-30% (compared to room air FIO2 of 21%), and the limited time the supplmental O2 would be available means that it's very unlikely any harm can be done. And if it makes him feel better to have it around, maybe that's a worthwhile expenditure of $300. That's for him to judge. Christ, there are people on this board who think keeping fish antibiotics around is a good idea, for, you know, EOTWAKI.

[Hmac]

Looking for a O2 tank that is small enough to put in an early model Camelback BFM. I would like to run 12-15 LPM for 10-15 minutes.

I have already put together the "wounds" pouches, medications, splints and C-collar, etc...and there is still lots of room. I'm primarily going to be using this to keep in the car and for my son's soccer games...there are six games going on at once and no ambulance or medical team in sight. So I at least want to be able to take care of my kid until the bus arrives.

Just looking for something light and compact.



--KJ

Just out of curiosity, are you an actual EMT, or just a medical "hobbyist"?

[Iraq Ninja]

These devices like eMox will only get you an FIO2 of about 25-30% (compared to room air FIO2 of 21%), and the limited time the supplmental O2 would be available means that it's very unlikely any harm can be done. .

I must respectively suggest that you may be mistaken in regards to this data and emox, based on my experience and testing we did at the Baghdad CSH during the evaluation of this product.

It is not a perfect system, but the readings we got were above 90%. But, flow rate with the emox is basically all or none. It is not a replacement for bottles, just a safer and lighter option for what I consider acceptable perfusion for the trauma we experienced.

We probably had to use it hundreds of times over the past 5 years and the only case I remember it not working was when ice cold water was used. We still preferred to have O2 tanks strapped to the outside of our vehicles, but we trusted the emox as a backup....

[Hmac]

FIO2 is determined by flow rate and the mask being used. A simple mask, such as comes with the Emox unit, will rarely get you to 40% FIO2 at the airway even at 6 l/min Maybe you were using non-rebreather masks, which would indeed likely get to 90%.

How were you actually measuring the FIO2? Maybe we're talking about different things here. Are you referring to the patient's oxygen saturation measured by pulse oximetry?

[Tact.medic]

21% works just fine ;)