View Full Version : Drop in Quad Rail question
KrampusArms
02-27-12, 14:24
Hello all. Been thinking about getting a drop in carbine length quad rail. My question to you seasoned folks is this: What drop in quad rail is the slimmest, or least bulky? Any input appreciated.
You might be interested in both the Samson EVO and the Troy TRX series. Both are slim, and rail sections can be added to them as you see fit. I have an EVO and love it. It's incredibly light, and you don't have to be gripping on uncomfortable rails all the time.
edit: I missed the drop in part, sorry. Neither of these are drop in, both are free floating.
For a drop in system I can't think of anything slimmer than the Daniel Defense Omegas
Here you Go! (https://sites.google.com/site/tacticalyellowvisor/charts/free-float-rails)
KrampusArms
02-27-12, 17:35
Awesome chart man! However, its all free float specifications. But that chart is very well done. I'll bookmark it for posterity. I like the slim profile of the DD Omega, but not the price. I know nothing about rails, just stumbled on a Troy drop in. Anybody have any input on the Troy? The Midwest Industries looks good too, but damn they're bulky.
Thank rob_s for the chart...I just provided the link. If it were me I would get the Troy TRX Extreme or the VTAC Extreme.
KrampusArms
02-27-12, 18:16
I've had a look at options suggested. Theres so many, its really hard to make a decision. Aesthetics play a large part. I'm set on getting a drop in, I don't want to take it to a gunsmith or invest in tools to install myself. I like the idea of being able to disassemble. Please keep making suggestions guys, the markets so saturated, I'll never see it all on my own.
Note: I just had a look at a UTG....... Its 60 bucks. I'll assume its a pos. Or does price just merit finish quality?
If you're in it for looks, you're asking the wrong crowd. We as a community are more geared towards functionality than aesthetics (although it's a nice benefit if it has both.) May I ask why you would ever need to disassemble it? I can't think of a single reason why you would need to. The market seems to be moving away from quad rails and switching back to Free Float Tubes. I think you'd be perfectly happy with a MOE handguard to start or even the TRX Extreme I mentioned earlier.
P.S. Just mentioning UTG shows that you haven't spent anytime reading the stickies or any of the major posts. I would strongly suggest that you take the time to read those before you start investing into these items.
Here you Go! (https://sites.google.com/site/tacticalyellowvisor/charts/free-float-rails)
My USGI KAC on my 6920 is 2.24 inches wide, and 2.3 inches high.
What do you want the rail for?
Personally, the time, effort, and cost involved, even to install a rail system makes free-floating a requirement for me personally. I can't think of any reason I'd install a railed handguard that would make me willing to deal with a non-free-float.
That said, if my reason was "aesthetics" I'd probably spend the money on ammo and go shoot and see if I could get my mind right.
thopkins22
02-27-12, 18:37
If you like the Omega, but don't like the price, search the EE for a used one. I'd take a used Omega over many of the other games in town any day of the week.
It's a great rail. I have one and love it, I'd use that upper a lot more often if it wasn't for the fact that I'm not a huge fan of 7" rails anymore.
You get what you pay for, and if you don't want to change ANYTHING on your gun, the DD Omega is where it's at.
My USGI KAC on my 6920 is 2.24 inches wide, and 2.3 inches high.
If you're submitting that info to add to the spreadsheet, contact rob_s (https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?u=160). He is the man responsible for the info.
Some of these, as well as at least one other not listed on the chart, can be "dropped in" by simply cutting off the delta ring and spring assembly. They attach to the stock barrel nut without removing the FSB. These models include the DD Omega and Centurion. If you have a low-pro gas block or would cut it down you could use the new DD MFR. Like Rob said, if I'm going to add the expense of a new quad rail, I would spend the few bucks extra and make it a free float rail. Another advantage to this is the fact that some of these new free float rails also have QD sling attachments or bolt on rail sections to keep weight down where you don't need the rail.
Try the Troy "Delta Drop-In" or the Charlie if you like a longer bottom rail.
It's like the TRX Extreme except it gives you your FSB so it requires no gun-smithing or any type of work except the removal of your old hand guard.
http://troyind.com/%20/rail-systemsaccessories/rails/ar15m16-rails/drop-in-rails/troy-battlerail-delta
If you're submitting that info to add to the spreadsheet, contact rob_s (https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?u=160). He is the man responsible for the info.
Rob's chart is for free floats.
snake eater 332
02-27-12, 19:15
What about the Centurion Arms C4 rail system?
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2483
The Centurion Arms rails are hard to beat for "lightweight".
The Centurion Arms rails are hard to beat for "lightweight".
I'd have to agree, they seem to be the Bee's Knee's as of late for quad rails. I'm holding out to see what The Noveske NSR is going to be like.
KrampusArms
02-27-12, 20:16
What do you want the rail for?
Personally, the time, effort, and cost involved, even to install a rail system makes free-floating a requirement for me personally. I can't think of any reason I'd install a railed handguard that would make me willing to deal with a non-free-float.
That said, if my reason was "aesthetics" I'd probably spend the money on ammo and go shoot and see if I could get my mind right.
I want the rail so I may add accessories. I currently have a flashlight, and vertical grip. I bought a small rail section to clamp on the bottom of the stock handgurds, but it flexes when I grip it. It feels cheap. I want to experiment with different placements of these items. I want the added rigidity. I don't believe the accuracy is profoundly benefited by a free float. A drop in will serve me fine. I also want the rail, so I can hang out with the cool kids at the range.
I want the rail so I may add accessories. I currently have a flashlight, and vertical grip. I bought a small rail section to clamp on the bottom of the stock handgurds, but it flexes when I grip it. It feels cheap. I want to experiment with different placements of these items. I want the added rigidity. I don't believe the accuracy is profoundly benefited by a free float. A drop in will serve me fine. I also want the rail, so I can hang out with the cool kids at the range.
This smells of Troll. Why wouldn't you be able to mount the flashlight and vg on the above mentioned systems...they all have that capability. Also, all those cool kids on the range most likely don't know two ****s about what they're doing. If that's the crowd you'd like to join they all congregate on TOS.
KrampusArms
02-27-12, 20:27
If you're in it for looks, you're asking the wrong crowd........................... May I ask why you would ever need to disassemble it?
Yeah I understand this. But I know that if there is anybody to ask about gear, it's you guys. Despite whatever my reasons are to acquire them are. Yes, I simply like knowing I can easily remove it. Maybe I find out I hate it, or want to clean rust off my barrel.
Yeah I understand this. But I know that if there is anybody to ask about gear, it's you guys. Despite whatever my reasons are to acquire them are. Yes, I simply like knowing I can easily remove it. Maybe I find out I hate it, or want to clean rust off my barrel.
I recommend the KAC, it's a drop in and very tough, I've seen IEDs rip barrels from upper receivers but the KAC rail was still in place. At 2.24 inches it's very comfortable. The KAC also has a heat shield. I use a KAC rail cover on the bottom and the simple rubber protectors on the sides.
KrampusArms
02-27-12, 20:31
This smells of Troll. Why wouldn't you be able to mount the flashlight and vg on the above mentioned systems...they all have that capability. Also, all those cool kids on the range most likely don't know two ****s about what they're doing. If that's the crowd you'd like to join they all congregate on TOS.
No no no! I'm no troll man. I had a legitimate inquiry about the slimmest drop in quad rail. You guys are the dudes to ask. The cool kid comment was just a joke c'mon. Whats "TOS"???
No no no! I'm no troll man. I had a legitimate inquiry about the slimmest drop in quad rail. You guys are the dudes to ask. The cool kid comment was just a joke c'mon. Whats "TOS"???
Sorry for the accusation then, it just seems that you've already had your mind made up before you even asked the question.
P.S. TOS stands for the other site aka arfcom.
justin_247
02-28-12, 03:38
My choices, in order:
(1) KAC RAS (you can get them cheap from the EE)
(2) DD Omega
(3) Troy MRF-DI
The Centurion rails look amazing, but I have no experience with them. Just know you need to be willing to cut off your delta ring and handguard cap to install it - this is not difficult, but it does turn some people off.
I don't believe the accuracy is profoundly benefited by a free float.
This is not religion. Beliefs should be founded in quantifiable fact or experience.
Free-floating the barrel on an AR carbine is not done for the same reason as it is with a bolt-action rifle or a 10/22.
Your only real objection seems to be cost. What are you expecting to pay?
If you are looking for a drop in free float the daniel defense omega 7 is just about the thinnest and lightest you can find. It is also very exspensive, a nice non free float and incredibly thin drop in is the Ergo z rail. The ergo is usually $100 bucks or so, well built for what it is and thinner than just about every other rail, drop in or not. I have both, the dd rail is of the very best quality, but you pay for it. It seems like you are interested in something a little more basic but still of good quality. The ergo is thinner than the dd rail.
http://www.ergogrips.net/item-detail.cfm?ID=4811-P&storeid=1&image=arzrail.gif&CFID=12529804&CFTOKEN=81480529
Check amazon, you cn find it for $100
If the stated use is FF, DD Omega drops in and gives you just that.
If not (OP stated such), why a rail? If it is a carbine, the MOE is perfect. Gives you MAX space to maneuver your hand. Use the front lip under the FSP for back pressure and dispense with the un-needed vertical grip - nothing in the way. It gets the job done cleanly, and helps keep you hands off the FSP.
If the stated use is FF, DD Omega drops in and gives you just that.
If not (OP stated such), why a rail? If it is a carbine, the MOE is perfect. Gives you MAX space to maneuver your hand. Use the front lip under the FSP for back pressure and dispense with the un-needed vertical grip - nothing in the way. It gets the job done cleanly, and helps keep you hands off the FSP.
I agree with you. The best non-free-float handguard is the MOE if the stock parts aren't getting it done for you.
I'm going to show how much I don't know and ask what "KAC" and "EE" stand for?
Failure2Stop
02-28-12, 06:45
I'm going to show how much I don't know and ask what "KAC" and "EE" stand for?
KAC = Knights Armament Company
The manufacturer of some very forward looking AR based firearms
EE - Equipment Exchange
The place here at M4Carbine where one can acquire good gear at a good price from good people.
In order to use the troy battle rail, the delta ring and front cap DO need to be cut off, correct?
In order to use the troy battle rail, the delta ring and front cap DO need to be cut off, correct?
The entire front sight post needs to be removed and either replaced with a low profile gas block or cut down to fit. The new alpha battle rails use a standard barrel nut so you could just cut off the delta ring, but the older trx versions require the removal of the barrel nut.
KrampusArms
02-28-12, 12:29
This is not religion. Beliefs should be founded in quantifiable fact or experience.
Free-floating the barrel on an AR carbine is not done for the same reason as it is with a bolt-action rifle or a 10/22.
Your only real objection seems to be cost. What are you expecting to pay?
Well in my limited experience, and from what I have handled and fired, the accuracy was not substantially better. Now if it's not for accuracy, correct me if I'm wrong, is it done so you don't flex the barrel slinging it up? I'm expecting to pay around or under 200 dollars.
KrampusArms
02-28-12, 12:36
If you are looking for a drop in free float the daniel defense omega 7 is just about the thinnest and lightest you can find. It is also very exspensive, a nice non free float and incredibly thin drop in is the Ergo z rail. The ergo is usually $100 bucks or so, well built for what it is and thinner than just about every other rail, drop in or not. I have both, the dd rail is of the very best quality, but you pay for it. It seems like you are interested in something a little more basic but still of good quality. The ergo is thinner than the dd rail.
http://www.ergogrips.net/item-detail.cfm?ID=4811-
P&storeid=1&image=arzrail.gif&CFID=12529804&CFTOKEN=8148052
9
Check amazon, you cn find it for $100
Man that Ergo looks pretty sweet, I had no idea they made rails. I'm familiar with the grips, this is exactly why I asked here. Yeah I want something basic, but not cheap either.
Failure2Stop
02-28-12, 12:44
Well in my limited experience, and from what I have handled and fired, the accuracy was not substantially better. Now if it's not for accuracy, correct me if I'm wrong, is it done so you don't flex the barrel slinging it up? I'm expecting to pay around or under 200 dollars.
It's not just slinging up, but yes, it's to avoid any pressure from being applied to the barrel.
KrampusArms
02-28-12, 13:05
I recommend the KAC, it's a drop in and very tough, I've seen IEDs rip barrels from upper receivers but the KAC rail was still in place. At 2.24 inches it's very comfortable. The KAC also has a heat shield. I use a KAC rail cover on the bottom and the simple rubber protectors on the sides.
Holy crap, the KAC is 350 dollars! It must be made out of strong ****ium. Thats a bad to the bone rail.
torquing down on a vfg or resting the gun on a wall can also change POI, at 50yds it might not be much but at 300 is enough to push you off paper/target.
If your paying that much($200), you should just spend the extra and get a nice FF rail. If you want cheap, id get the magpul handguards, solid, multiple attatchment options and very low cost.
I suggest you shoot the snot out of your current setup and find out what will really improve your shooting. Having the ability to make the course of fire your bitch is way cooler than buying something.
Ummm.... Time and cost of installing a free float?
Dremel, and 5 minutes. What's the problem?
Beat Trash
02-28-12, 16:32
In order to use the troy battle rail, the delta ring and front cap DO need to be cut off, correct?
With the new Delta and Charlie battle rails, nothing needs to be cut off.
Holy crap, the KAC is 350 dollars! It must be made out of strong ****ium. Thats a bad to the bone rail.
You can get seconds for $150 from KAC.
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